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Called To Holiness
With Martha Kilpatrick and hosted by John Enslow
Special guests: Jennifer Wentzel, Carole Nelson, and Julie
(Jennifer) When Carole was talking about the authority, I just saw the perfection in everything that He’s done, in every part of my life, to bring me so perfectly to Him, to fulfill the calling that He laid on me even before I understood that such a thing was there., I don’t even know if that is making sense, but this, this calling to holiness and His fulfillment of it is just, uhmm, it’s just awesome; frightening, but awesome.
(M) You are so, I want to say ‘young’ in the Lord, and I don’t mean immature, I don’t mean ‘early’. I mean that your, you just grow in your walk with the Lord in such youngness and freshness. You’ve just growing into such a wonderful child. And I think He delights in you a lot more than you have any idea.
(Jennifer breaks out in a laugh-cry.)
(Carole) This past couple of weeks I’ve been kind of walking through a new experience for me in the Lord, but through it, He led me back to one of Martha’s writings that she did in 2002; and it’s “The Four Faces Of Jesus.” And the one He took me to was hearing the Lion roar, and though it doesn’t use the word holiness in this particular point, statement, the call of it is to holiness; it points to holiness. And it’s simply, “Knowing Christ as lion is to live in the safety of fearing God.” And I’ve pondered that, we’re only in a safe place, we’re only in the safety, in a place of safety, as we fear God. And we don’t fear God. I mean I don’t fear God by myself. He is real capable of instilling that fear of Himself, and that is, and that has been, the pathway and the journey was the call to holiness was, at least in the first place instilling the fear of God, and take me to really a safe place that I didn’t have any idea about. I didn’t realize I was safe. I didn’t know I was safe. I didn’t feel safe in that because He defied my ah, delusion and illusions of what I had made Him to be, what I wanted Him to be, what I controlled Him to be, which was insipidly sweet, and blinking at my sin.
(M) Tolerant of flesh. That’s what we really believe He is, is tolerant of flesh that He abhors. And you know, Carole, you reminded me of that writing. I remember vividly how that came about. I was dealing with a missionary I had discipled. And I was real troubled about her. And I was praying and the Lord said, “She likes, she does not know My faces. She only knows one face, the face of the sweet.” And then He took me back to the four faces, and that’s when I wrote it. I wrote it because we don’t know that He has four sides, and more, but essentially, the ox, the servant; the human, the compassion; the lion who is the King; and the eagle who is God. And so that’s the context of when that was written. And I hadn’t thought about it in years, but we need to know Him, as terrifying as He is, and we don’t like that. We try to re-create Him in our, our own image. But anyway thank you, did I interrupt you on anything.
(Julie) I read this, this morning, and I guess because we’re on holiness it just jumped out like I’ve never seen this connection before. And I really never understood this until this moment in what you’re saying, how much holiness is, is sonship. And here it is in Ephesians. This is chapter one, this is reading out of the Holman, and I like this translation because it’s so simple, but this essential connection is in several translations. This is verse’s four and five. “ For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy.” And then verse five says, “In love He predestined us to be adopted.” Those two things are tied together, and even in what Jennifer was sharing just a minute ago, as we, I mean honestly since Carole, brought this book into our midst, it is, it is probably the most fearful light I’ve ever experienced. And even this last week there has been a chastening that I, I don’t think I’ve ever been as absolutely just stark terrified of Him. But in the middle of it there was something new that has never been. I know Martha said at one point God has to lay a foundation for this for a long time in our lives before we can even handle this. Before we can even go through it with Him, before we can even face the depths of our sin He has to lay a foundation. And I see why, because otherwise we’d just, we would be so afraid of Him there’s no way we could take it. But all the way through it, I love this about Murray’s writings too, because it seems like it’s always true; Murray’s writings always give hope even though he deals with the most difficult aspects of God in, in terms of His holiness. I mean His holiness is His immovableness. It’s the fact that Murray stresses all throughout the book that, and its all through scripture, He created us to be holy, His whole intention all along was He wanted a holy people. And I guess this week I just met Him in how unmoving He is in that. And He will kill me if that’s what it takes, over and over and over and over if that’s what it takes because He has called me to this. But all in the middle even of seeing Him and just being absolutely just devastated by the light of His holiness, there was this praise and this thanksgiving kind of like what Jen was talking about of ‘I thank You that You’re dealing with me as a son.’ And I kept thinking about Hebrews twelve where it just talks about “God deals with you as with sons, for what son is there whom his father does not discipline.” And that “If you’re without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you’re illegitimate children and not sons.” And it talks about how “Our earthly fathers disciplined us for a short time as seemed best to them, but He disciplines us for our good, so that we may share His holiness, and all discipline for the moment seems not to be joyful, but sorrowful, but afterwards, to those who have been trained by it, it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness.” And I guess in a sense that, it was not conscious, it was not anything I was trying to do, but it was like it was coming up from His own work in me. I knew that even this fire was the proof that I was one of His, that I was called. And it just gave a, I don’t know, it was such a strange experience to be so terrified of Him and yet at the same time so secure, like you were talking about, so secure, so sure that He’s going to complete the work that He called us to.
(J) Well, I always go back to the original problem here. Ah, I always think that, that holiness, as I do with everything of God, that it’s a requirement of me, rather than a requirement of Him. It’s a statement of my effort, my…
(M) It’s a statement of my inadequacy.
(J) Well, that’s ultimately where it goes.
(M) Of my condemnation.
(J) (Background fumbling for words.) (Quiet laughter.) Yeah, so I usually, I go there and I say… I’ve just been amazed at how the statement of His holiness is a statement of Who He is more than who I am… (Martha in background: “not”.) Well who I am or who I am not, it’s both. I can’t be holy, nor is His statement of holiness a condemnation of, of my un-holiness, even though it convicts me. But it’s just, it’s His kindness and His holiness that just comes out of it that, I’m amazed at that. That’s not my, that’s not my uhmm, experience of life, because of certain situations. It always is a requirement of me rather than a requirement of Him, (Martha adds: “gift”) and a gift and, and to receive His holiness, and to receive a holy nature as a gift… I don’t know, I just…
(M) How is it sweet? That’s a different view than we, we’ve heard.
(J) Ah. (John laughs) Well, I wasn’t ready for this thank you very much; too raw.
(J) Well, He always, always comes back to me, like He did with that love notes of remembrance. He’s always constantly showing me His love, and His preciousness, and His touch in everything that He requires. (John is overcome with emotion.) Because I expect His condemnation with, with the requirement of be holy, “be holy as I Am holy.” I don’t hear that as I’m so holy that I’m going to make you holy. It’s I’m so holy and you’re not. It’s condemning. It’s, it’s always placing me on the scale, and it says ‘this is who you aren’t’, ‘this is who you have to strive to try to be’, and I always come up empty, and all I can do is just look and God, ‘failed again, sorry’. But He constantly comes back, and He’s like, I’m not asking you to do it, I’m asking you to receive it; it’s a love thing, it’s a relationship. It’s as Jen has said in other podcasts, “it’s a dance,” and I’ve never seen holiness as a dance where He’s leading. I’ve always tried to keep up with the feet, and I can’t do it. (John is crying.)
(M) That is sweet; that’s the sweetness. He won’t let you stay in the deficit as the reality. That’s incredible. We’re all weeping. You got us.
(J) You asked for it. (Laughter)
(M) I got it.
(J) It’s not my fault. (John is crying and laughing at the same time.)