with Martha Kilpatrick and hosted by John Enslow
(J) Well Martha, I know that you believe that you’re going to pull the fast one on me, and that you’re going to be quicker to the draw. But I have the ‘mike’, and I’m going to pull out my gun quick before you shoot me, and get you. Over the last couple of months there has been such an increase in the anointing coming out of you and out of your word. And we just did a conference in California, and you spoke on a topic that I’ve heard you speak on about the exchanged life, about Christ’s life being lived through us, and that really basically His worship and life is the only thing that’s accepted by the Father, as lived through us. Ok, I’ve heard you say that. But your message was the clearest I’ve ever heard that particular message being spoken. And it had a power behind it in its simplicity. It was very, very, very simple, and very precise. And I was really grateful for it because I’ve really been begging you to write that book, a book about this. And we’re, we’re going to get through “The Better Blood”, about Cain and Able, but then we’re going to move into that I hope. I had the word that after “Chariot Of Fire”, after Elijah, Elijah brings the straight path for the exchanged life, which is the Son. So really, that was my understanding. I did a Shabbat, remember?
(J) And I got that word that was going to come next. But actually before the exchange of life can come, the blood has to be shed. And so actually it’s more perfect. It was just… It’s in line, but ah, so I’m real excited about that. And ah, but a lot of things that are coming out of you, and out of the ministry right now is just, it’s almost being honed and perfected, and its power is greater. And that’s how I feel it, see it, and ah, and others have seen it, written e-mails about what’s coming out of here. The “CD of the Month” in the last, I’d say four to six months, have just been increased, the benefit of them, the… You’re bringing out more richness of Christ, and you’re bringing it down to an easier to understand… Not that your writings and all your CD series… It’s gone just… it’s gone up a level. And I’m real excited. Even, you said this morning, just something very, very simple to me. Uhmm. You said about the apostolic ministry. And you said that the whole goal of the apostolic ministry is to liberate, not dominate. And in a man-centered world we see that apostolic mantle, so to speak; we see it as a dominating force, as a power force, as a authority and as a position, a higher position.
(J) But what you were saying to me was that Paul came in meekness and weakness, and that he was fighting the prisons that those that were following Christ were in. And I don’t want to… I know you’re going to go further into this, and we’re going to… But just that the power to liberate, not dominate, that to me is incredible. Because I do see your meekness, and I do see your weakness, and I… I also see the power of Christ’s apostolic power in you. Not that you’re ‘the apostle’, because you’ve never claimed that, nor that I don’t even think you would. But the apostolic power in you is really the power to come after the prisons that those that are listening and following ‘Christ in you’… ah, that it’s the power to release them from a prison. And so maybe that’s what I’m seeing is this incredible rise of anointing. It’s just a greater anointing to even release people from the prison. Because what is our need? Our need is for Christ, but we have to be unentangled and released out of a prison to hear, to listen, to hear and to have that come forth. I don’t know what I’m saying. But I just, I’d like to understand this. What has happened in you? What is… what has been transpiring in you that you’ve just seen this, if you can say? And I don’t want to put you on the spot here, but I do see that, and I want people to know it, because it’s just incredible.
(M) Well John, it’s death. I think what’s coming out is resurrection life. And what I’ve been going through is enormous fire. I told about it on the podcast; but on my end how it feels is that… This morning we did the “Tape of the Month”, and I felt like my notes were in chaos and that I was nowhere near finished enough to do it. And… But when I began, I said things I have never known before they came out of my mouth. I didn’t feel I had it. I told you, I could work on this wonderful subject for a month, then be ready for the “CD of the Month”. But when I began, the order fell on me sort of. And it was like a power beyond me, and ‘a knowledge’ quite beyond me did the CD. It was His Life. And on my end it feels like I began in such utter weakness, and when I go to speak the Spirit of God comes in and it goes somewhere that I don’t… I don’t know how to… I wouldn’t know how to get there. I wouldn’t know how to produce what He’s doing. So I’m very aware there’s a difference. I’m very aware there’s ‘an ease’. In California I was just completely free, but I had to go through a number of surrenders. And so we’re still on surrender. And you said something this morning that was extremely powerful. Because what I learned about the apostolic authority was that it always goes to bring a person to their freedom of choice, and that is the liberation. Actually choice is the liberation. And what we… you said this morning… ‘I want’ and ‘I choose’ are two different things. So tell me how you saw that.
(J) Ok, so that’s really what you were saying, the apostolic message is, to give people the power to choose.
(J) And ah, so ah, I wrote down ‘want’ and ‘choose’ are two different things. I started praying this morning and I was saying, I want, I want. And I heard Him just say, “choose’. And I said, ah..ohhhh, wanting and choosing are two totally different things. I can want all day long, whatever. But if I say, I choose the life of Christ to live for me, not that I want to see You manifest your life through me. I want to see purity of my heart and mind and thoughts. I want to see, you know, ‘whatever’, want, want, want, want. Oh, gosh, how long have I been want, want, want; forty years I guess. You know, the Israeli’s and me are kind of ….
(M) (Martha laughs) You’re tracking.
(J) Yeah, we’re tracking on that time-line there. So all of a sudden He said “choose”. And I said ok, I choose that I want… opps… (laughter)
(M) It’s kind of deep isn’t it, we need to yank that thing out.
(J) It’s got roots! Oooo! I choose the life of Christ to be lived through me. I choose for that life over my flesh life. I choose for Your purity to be in me.
(M) Ok John, why would a person say ‘I want’ and not ‘I choose’?
(J) Ok, well this is…
(M) There’s my zinger.
(J) Opps! Ok. Well, one is a power word. One is a grasping word. One is a effort word. One is a word that says, uhmm… it’s just a power word.
(M) I can do it. I can do it?
(J) Yeah. Well, it does throw you on your back a little bit to say I want, because… And then you’re putting the responsibility on God to do it. Ok? Obviously He does have the responsibility to live His life through us. But I want to kind of put ‘you’ in a more powerless position. Its kind of like the cast sheep, ‘oh, I want’ (spoken in a whine).
(M) ‘But I can’t’ (in a whine).
(J) And I can’t. Truly His life has to be lived through me; I can’t, but want puts it in an irresponsible position.
(J) And yeah, want is a power word in that if I want, it I’m going to try to get it, I’m going to try to achieve it, I’m going to want, you know… It puts the power… Really, the screwed up thing is, ‘I want’ removes the power from you and…
(M) It’s a dichotomy, come on.
(J) It is a dichotomy, because though it ‘casts you’ like a sheep, you know, in a powerless position, it is a power word. Because it is an effort word, it’s a striving word, and where choosing really is a surrender word. And that’s what I absolutely love. So choosing surrenders to God. You’re giving your direction, ok, that’s where you’re empowered. You’re giving the direction of your intention of your will, but it’s powerless to do it. And you say I choose something that’s beyond me, but that’s where I want to go.
(M) That’s where I want God to take me. (Laughter)
(J) Yeah, well, ‘I want, but I want’… Ok so ah, so that I just see as really cool, because of the fact that when you’re powerless, ‘cast’, by the want…
(M) Well John choosing is your responsibility. That’s all you’re supposed to do. Choosing and performance are two different things. I think ‘want’ is performance along with…
(J) Want feels like there’s a striving in it.
(M) Hmhum, yeah, a futile striving.
(J) It is futile.
(M) But the apostolic authority comes to set you free to make a choice. That’s all, that’s all we need, is to recover our belief in our choice. Because I think when you say ‘I want’, it’s because you believe your choice has no power.
(M) And that if you just chose, and let that be enough, God would never move and you would never move. But you have to come to see the great gift of free choice.
(J) I’ve had forty years of ‘want’. And really, it’s left me in want, in a lot of arenas.
(M) There’s the irony.
(J) (Laughter) There’s your irony.
(M) But the things you have chosen are quite evident too, in your life. You have chosen to do His will. You have chosen to lay down your life, and you’ve done it genuinely.
(J) You, you have really come in and convinced me of my choice. You’ve said, you do have the choice, and you do have the power to choose. When I first came to Shulamite ministries, I didn’t believe in my choice. I thought I can tell them, I can… So I think it’s just an old pattern, and I’ve just never gotten rid of it. But I think … Satan would love me to stay in ‘want’.
(J) He would love it.