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Confrontation unto LIFE
Episode #763
7/18/2021
With Martha Kilpatrick and hosted by John Enslow
Special Guest: Joan Wentzel
I can’t think of a single person in this room that you haven’t impacted with a confrontation…it has been absolute LIFE.
Martha:
We’ve been meeting in a loving circle and we’ve been looking at the story of Jonah and the repentance of Nineveh and his cowardice and so forth so we’ve had a good time. Have we?
John:
Absolutely, Absolutely
So, you just did the CD of the Month which actually will come out in a couple of months. Martha has been really full lately and we’ve gotten a number of CD’s already kind of lined up. I’m playing catch-up right now. But we ran out of podcast and so we wanted to do a podcast basically about this message. I’m sorry! It will come out soon. It will probably a couple of months. And it’s probably going to be called Confrontation unto Life.
So, it was a real dynamic message. It was amazing because I think it’s the call of the hour. I think it’s where we’re at as a body and as a church and as the Bride of Christ.
Martha:
I see the United States as Nineveh. That we’re called.
John:
And the church has been unwilling to go and confront.
Martha:
And confront. So, we’re overcome by evil now.
John:
Now it’s chasing us, hunting us down
Martha:
Un huh. And it seems to be winning.
John:
Yeah, it does.
Martha:
And so we have a…
John:
We’re being oppressed by oppressing confrontation.
Martha:
Yes, oh, yes.
And there are voices out there saying…
John:
There are.
Martha:
…that the church failed. I have said, “No” but it’s true. We have believed, as individuals we have refused to confront the evil that is around us.
John:
But I have witnessed in living with you that is not the case with you. That has not been your pattern of life. You have…I can’t think of a single person in this room that you haven’t impacted with a confrontation…somehow; whether it was a direct confrontation, whether it was being connected with someone who has been confronted, or…It’s not like you go on with a checklist and you’re looking for something wrong.
Martha:
Looking for evil.
John:
Yeah, really. Looking for evil, looking under every bush for something. That’s not the case at all.
And I woke up this morning and I need a blog for tomorrow, a post. And so, I wrote something about having Christ’s view from the heavens. I basically said at the beginning if you look at man from this earthly plain, if you look on a horizontal plain and you look at man, it will take you under; it’s devastating; it will take you under. There’s so much brokenness, deception, evil it will take you under. But God calls us to look from above down on all of humanity and I believe that that’s what you have done. You have literally, you’ve gotten with Him and He looks down upon the people.
It’s the same thing with Jonah and Nineveh. Jonah was looking at them on a horizontal level through the plain. He was looking through their past, to the cruelty of what they had done to the Hebrew and the Jews. They were awful. They were disgusting barbaric people. They need to be wiped off the face of the earth because they were absolutely heinous. The level of their cruelty in warfare was just disgusting. And I did a lot of research when I put that in my book. I did a lot of research about what Jonah was fighting, why Jonah would say “No” to God. And he was offended; he was offended by the fact that these people were so grotesquely evil.
It’s like 9/11 that you have these evil people that literally blow our buildings up, shake our entire foundation and hurt our spirit and then we’re supposed to go and love them. It was very similar. His was even worse because they were horrible, they were horrible people. The things that they did were horrible. It’s not even something you should even say it’s so grotesque. And that’s what his resistance was. “I would rather die and go and bring mercy to those people that have done that to me and to my people.”
And so, God said, “I want you to look at it from My view. I’m looking at these evil people. Yes, they’ve done all kinds of stuff.” But see there was also an amazing part of the story that the reason why they were done that way was because of their own rebellion. It was a response from God to bring that wrath against the Jews because they had turned their back on God and Nineveh was the very tool that God was using because He saw them, also, from above. He was using them as a tool to scourged them, to hurt them, to wound them because of their rebellion and their resistance to God.
So, you lose that point and you just see their abuse and their cruelty and you don’t see the fact that God was using them.
Martha:
Wow. You did the history. I’m so grateful. That just adds such depth to the story.
John:
I love it, I love it. I put it in the book. It’s probably in The Sovereign Touch. Yeah, I think it is in The Sovereign Touch. So, the Sovereign Touch that’s in there. And I literally looked through commentaries. I went through historical records of what went on.
So, now we’re in this position that we have to look at people everywhere from His view. And that’s what I’ve seen you do. You have love and vision for people and you come in their life and you minister that love and vision; Christ’s own vision, Christ’s own love to people. And when they refuse it, absolutely refuse it, the Lord comes in the same view and brings the confrontation. And I know that it has cost you greatly to do it. I know that it has been one of the most painful things because you do love; your heart is tender; you’ve got a motherly heart. And you’re so tender and you’re so loving and you desire, often, our wholeness and healing and connection with God more than we have. And you’ve pushed us toward that. But at a certain point the wooing no longer is the way; the hunter comes. And when the hunter comes, it’s awful. I’ve watched you do it where I’ve seen the Spirit of God come over your face and I’ve been scared to death. I’ve been like, “Dear Jesus, what is that?” And He told me exactly what it was.
When you confronted one person, I didn’t want to look. It was in front of all of us because this person lived in rebellion and hatred and bitterness and had been loved and loved and loved and loved and corrected but then they just refused; they would not see! And then you came. You rose up. I smelled it coming; before we ever went to that meeting, I smelled it coming. I was like, “Oh, dear God, this is coming.”
And so, when you rose up, I looked at your face and said, “Ok!” and I got on my face. And God said, “Look!” I said, “I don’t want to look. I don’t want to. He said, “Look at her face!” He said it both to me and Don Nelson. Both of us looked.
Martha:
You got on the floor with me.
John:
I looked and I saw the fire of God in your eyes. I saw the fury of God. And I said, “What am I looking at?” Because I mean it was like fireballs in your eyes. And I said, “What am I looking at?” And He said, “This was the indignation that Moses had when He came down and He saw the revelry and the idolatry and the grossness.” And he’s holding these beautiful tablets that this beautiful God had just written. And he looks and he says, “You couldn’t just wait? You just couldn’t wait a couple of days for me?! You had to go and start whoring yourself over with idols and you’re gross!” And he threw them down. He was so mad. He threw them down. He couldn’t take it.
He got himself collected, I guess, and went back up the mountain and had the whole dealing with God. I can’t imagine it didn’t break his heart; smashed his heart. He’d just been with the most holy thing you could ever be to see face to face with God with His handwriting, with His finger on tablets. And then you come and you see whoring and vileness. And it broke him. But the rage, I don’t think it was Moses’ as much. I think it was God’s rage. And I’ve seen that in your face.
But all this to say, I’ve also seen the incredible fruit because everyone in this room, most of us in this room have been confronted and have been saved by the confrontation. It was life, it was a life preserver. We wouldn’t hear it in the wooing, in the love and then you came with confrontation because it was almost like you were grabbing our arm and pulling us out from a speeding down bus. “Get out of the way!” And it’s wasn’t spoken softly, “Oh, come on get out of the way of the bus.” No! It’s grab and yank. But it has been fruitful. Many, many, many people have had the fruit in their life of confrontation, of your confrontation, of His confrontation through you. And, yes, we’ve had those that refused the confrontation and are gone. They are not here anymore.
I say all this just to kind of preface Joan’s story and her testimony of this very thing. And so, Joan, I want you to share your story.
Martha:
This seems to be a wonderful club. The name of it is We’ve Been to the Valley of the Whale!
Joan:
Martha asked me to share my story and it’s really pretty simple. I’m somebody that had to be thrown out of the boat. I was someone that needed to be separated out because I was causing harm to the body, to this this ministry.
And God knew my heart. God knew exactly where I was and what I needed and I can’t tell you how grateful I am. I don’t have words of gratitude for how good God was to put me out. I needed it. I didn’t understand how evil I was. I didn’t see my evil.
And I had a long period of being out of the boat but I praise God for every day of it, every minute of it because He saved my soul and in saving me, He saved the folks here that I so love that I was really hurting and killing without knowing it.
So, I just thank God for this story and for the gift of separation because separation to me is for salvation and for everyone’s salvation. It didn’t just save the men in the boat which I’m grateful for, but it saved Jonah; everyone got saved.
And God is such love and we really don’t know what love is. But the story of Jonah to me for my own life I can say is a story of love and grace and mercy and redemption.
And I thank God for Martha’s willingness to love God enough and love me enough to say, “You have to go” in love. And, really, she just let me go to my choice. I had already left. My heart was gone. It was not with Him. And for the sake of all especially me she had me leave. And I am so grateful for it. She didn’t do it easily; she did it tearfully and with lots of grief on her side and mine but it was redemptive and I’m praise God for her willingness to just love Him enough to do it. And may we all come to the place of loving Him enough and loving someone else enough to say, “No.” No to the evil.
Martha:
Thank you, Joan.
Confrontation unto LIFE – Episode #763 – Shulamite Podcast
We’re called to come with Christ’s own vision, Christ’s own love to people. When they refuse it, the Lord comes and brings the confrontation.
Joan and Helen, I join in your sharing “that God loves me enough to give Martha and John the passion and trust in HIM to confront a sinner such as I”……You have both expressed my heart
and gratefulness to our ABBA for their willingness to confront for the sake of Christ, all for
HIS glory. Helen, quoting you, “We (I) was brought out…..to enter in” ……..the most wonderful
life that is blessed beyond measure to tell the truth to myself, in exchange for the LIFE OF Christ.
Their walk of bowing, surrendering to HIS WILL, lessons lived out before me. Thank you for
this wonderful podcast, thank you Joan for your openness to share your walk and how grateful
I am to have witnessed this walk in person. May the Lord pour out his basketful left over on you all!!
She kissed my bramble’d betraying heart, & let me go to my choice of refusal. It was public, because i made it so. God knows what it takes, & one who follows Him will follow Him in His view..& watch with Him. (MK & JE) The Love i received was fierce & full; the separation was the same. God is the God of ALL. He is exactly who He says He is…I AM. i saw my small. The love & vision were not some made up flattering thing, they were IN CHRIST. And so heaven’s grip was in them, & at seeing my destruction, through separation & repentance, the cry rose in me for Truth in my inward parts. It was purposely painful…God made it so. Isn’t that amazing mercy… All those confused, wild, rampant bramble branches did not just go away. Repentance brought light; then came opportunity to yield to God’s view & authority, to surrender to HIS plan & purpose, to walk in obedience, slipping head & heart, under His easy yoke. Safety, rest, companionship, purpose. His great salvation is “unto full stature”. We are brought out…to enter in! Thank you Joan! me too! HE is the ONE we worship! Never can i express how grateful i am to the depths, breaths & heights of it. Thank You Jesus. Thank you both, Martha & John!