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with Martha Kilpatrick and John Enslow
(M) Well I’m going to tell a story in this manner. Someone wrote to us, and I’ll put it in a parable form so that it won’t be recognizable. This man writes, “I broke your window and I did it deliberately; forgive me.” And in the… in the manner of asking forgiveness, he said, “after all, you gave me the ball and, and you asked me to play.” In other words he dismantled his guilt by blame. And then said in essence, “but I never broke your window.” And we went, that’s crazy. You just wrote it down that you broke the window, and now you’re saying you never broke it. It’s that, how do I say? How do you describe that? It’s like…. It’s crazy.
(J) Crazy; that’s how you describe it; it’s nuts. It’s insanity; it’s total delusion and insanity.
(M) Delusion will take you to such… Oh here it is! It was not rational or reasonable.
(M) It was absolutely ludicrous.
(M) And that has happened to us a number of times lately. In fact, there was one person that … I’ll try to create an example. For instance, Luke wrote the book of Luke. It says so clearly, “I, Luke.” And then the person says, Luke didn’t write the Bible, it was really Matthias. And someone says, no, the Bible says it. And he becomes indignant and declares that what he says is the truth in the face of the written scripture. And it makes your head go ‘buzz-buzz’, because you want to say, you don’t… You actually are going to argue about what is on black and white words on paper that is solid and has been there for centuries? You actually are going to claim that you, what you say is higher than the scriptures? It’s like we are seeing the delusion go ‘bezerk’. And it’s all because of living, number one, lies, so that you really believe… the liar believes that he can lie and people believe the lie.
(J) And that he can, he can make truth.
(M) There you go. I knew you would come up with it. Yeah. Truth is what I say it is, rather than what it is. And we have another dear friend that went to a church meeting, a small church, and took a problem to them. And they declared that they were on a certain spiritual ground that’s not even in the Word of God, John. I don’t know if that’s clear; I don’t want to make it too clear. But it’s just over and over again we’re seeing this obsession to focus on something that isn’t even in the scriptures, and make that your standard with no hearing of God, and no, no effort to hear, but declaring what is, as if you know; because if you don’t go to God, who you really go to is the enemy. And when you go to the enemy, what you do is exalt yourself, and make yourself the standard and the proponent of the truth. You don’t need to hear. You know because you’re really the ‘god’.
(J) And this is another aspect of it. It, it’s all… it’s really scary because what it basically does is, it takes the words written to… Ok, here you go, because this is what I believe. If you take the words written to someone else, and you try to apply them to yourself, it doesn’t work. This letter that God wrote was to His beloved and was to His believers. And if I, a ‘non-believer’, or a deluded believer, take these words and try to apply them to my circumstance and situation, they’re not… this isn’t for you. Ok, so this is a… I wrote that one thing called “Love Notes of Remembrance”, and that basically this is a message from God to His loved one, His beloved. And uhmm, you have to hear His voice in it. I have to hear His voice in this for me. It’s… I can’t even take the words exactly how they are. I have to hear His voice in illumination into my heart. I have to take that, and I have to … I can’t just take words, and I just can’t take illumination; I have to take the word and the illumination together as a package from a Person.
(M) And I can’t isolate some aspect that, ‘out there’, and apply it apart from the Person, or I will be in delusion. It’s when you remove the Person…It’s when you remove the Person of Christ as the center that you go into delusion and error and obsession. And if somebody, if someone comes amongst you who has this…I’m going to show you how it affects us. Just as the liar believes the lies, the person that tells the truth can see the truth. So the only way we’ll be able to discern in the coming days is if we are people of reality. Jesus said, ‘the Father seeks those who worship in spirit and truth’, but the word truth there didn’t mean facts, it meant reality, real life.
(J) And that’s the big difference. That’s the huge chasm between the one you’re talking about, and the one … and the true believer. That’s the chasm, truth as a reality, truth as a fact.
(J) That’s, that is the chasm. And it’s a gianormous chasm, but it appears that it’s, you know?
(M) Well that’s why I think, John, God has given you this story in your life to live out, to work out, to struggle out, of going to the real God. Now you’ve had the real God in your life for years, but there was this element somehow that you, that you…
(J) It was through rejection, it was rejection of God.
(M) It was all because of rejection, right? Ok, so it was the rejection of God as Who He is.
(J) I rejected God for Who He was, because I believed that He was someone that He wasn’t.
(M) And Carole explained it very clearly when she was giving her testimony. Well, I’ve been… For a long time I have puzzled over First John. The book of First John has intrigued me, and I really believe that God is showing me what it really means. It’s, it is… John is writing this book at the, toward the last of the first century. In other words, he was quite old. It’s thought that he hadn’t gone to Patmos yet. But he had lived some as a believer, as a Spirit-filled believer. And he’d lived for decades after Christ’s death and resurrection. And so he had come to see what the enemy was going to do with the church. And it was bring in agnosticism, which I’m not going into agnosticism. What I’m going to do is take this book and show, if I can, how he is trying to establish how we view people. And, and as I said yesterday, from John you see there are only two kinds of people, the born-again, and the not born-again.
(M) And he goes into the ways you can tell. But he begins by this, that God is light. He begins by going to the Word of life. And I’m going through this book in a personal Bible study, just verse by verse in depth, and going all over the scriptures that it references. But he deals first with light and life. And you see the measure of life is relationship with God. And the measure of death is not having relationship with God. That’s… it boils down to that. So, you see the deluded believe, “God is pleased with me because I’m pleased with me.” And I can be pleased with me at times when God isn’t, and I can be not pleased when God is. It’s like I learned when I first came out amongst the church; I, I marveled that there were people that God didn’t ever ‘cross’.
(M) But that’s, that’s what delusion and obsession is, is God is pleased with me, because I’m pleased with me.
(J) And I say.
(M) And I say that He is. And I say that I have repented when it’s a lie. I say I mean these words when they’re mere words. The problem is having… The problem is the lie of speaking something that you do not mean, and saying something that you did not live. You can’t divorce your actions and your heart from your words, or that will be delusion and deception. That’s the lie. It’s merely words. It’s like I … Oswald talks about in the book of Job…Oswald wrote “Baffled to Fight Better”. And what he said was the men who advised Job took the truth and made it a lie.
(M) And the way they did it was to take the facts and apply them to a real reality. And none of them did it. And God said, they have not spoken right of Me. They had spoken the right facts. You can’t find a lie in the facts they presented; but they didn’t apply in life to what Job was going through, so they were a lie. I had that happen to me recently. I had someone bring me something very good, and my whole spirit revolted against it because I knew that somehow it didn’t apply. And in the end, it was totally ‘off’, even though that person wanted to say something meaningful to me. And we’ve talked about it so I can comfortably, you know, say it’s resolved, beautifully, gloriously. But you cannot bring a truth and apply it to reality and… Ok, so John is talking first about light. Then he says the reason he’s writing this book is so that we would have fellowship with John, who has fellowship with God and the Son, Father and Son. Then he says, so that your joy will be complete. Now, John, when these deluded people come in our lives, the first thing they do is interfere with our fellowship with the Father and the Son. They interfere with relationship because they are not in relationship. If you’re in relationship with God, and I’m in relationship with God, we can commune.
(M) But if someone comes in who’s not in relationship, they have the most disturbing effect on two things: our relationship with God, and the presence of joy.
(J) That’s right.
(M) Your joy is robbed by the false teachers or the false prophets that come in.
(J) And usually I’m questioning God’s love.
(M) And yourself.
(J) And myself.
(J) I’m questioning both. I’m questioning God and saying, I don’t think God loves me, I think God’s mad at me, or whatever, you know.
(M) Well, someone said yesterday what they bring in is confusion. And it happened to me this morning. There was something purporting to be so godly and so spiritual, and it wasn’t; it was a lie. I happened to know factually that the whole thing was a lie. And it just brought such confusion, and the, robbery of my joy; and the person I was praying with said, “Martha, you are, you are living the podcast you’re going to do this morning.” You’re living the experience of that confusion of the lie coming in veiled as the truth. That just makes your head go ‘buzz-buzz’. And you have to, you have to shake your head and say, “What is the reality here?”