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Discerning The False (Part Three)
With Martha Kilpatrick and hosted by John Enslow
Special guest: Carole Nelson
(J) I’m wondering if the fact is, is that love is… that people are literally closed off to love in any form. Because, and ultimately probably Christ in any form, because we’re not willing to bring the love, the encouragement, the true encouragement, true love, true. They’re not willing to bring that or the correction. We’re not… So I’m wondering if we’re not willing to do any of it, you know what I mean?
(J) We’re just shut off to the entire allotment of everything that Christ wants to bring. We’re only in our logic.
(M I was working with someone this week who is very dear to me, and I told her that she was shut off. She had shut herself off to protect herself. And I said to her, “You will not live and exist until you’re completely vulnerable, and more than anything, vulnerable to God, so He can do with you what He wants to.” But you miss it if you protect yourself, or you aren’t willing to just splay your life out there. Like Jennifer said, “So what if it’s a risk that you’re wrong, so what! Forgive me, and let’s go on.” But it’s being vulnerable to others, vulnerable to the Lord especially, and vulnerable to the Spirit. You can’t be led of the Spirit until you’re controlled by the Spirit. There’s a big difference between being led of the Spirit, “ok, you do this Martha, you do that Jennifer.” No, it’s, “Control me, Holy Spirit. Come and be Who You want to be in me, whoever You want to be.” And for me, New Testament worship is letting Christ live in your body and be Himself. That is New Testament worship. That is the acceptable service of worship, to let Him live. He only can live through us to each other. Church is everybody letting Christ live. And so I’m passionate for you to know Him and be an expression of Him. But I’m passionate because I want Him, I want to know Him. I will never contain more than the teeniest speck of Who He is. I could spend my life seeking to know Him, but I will never know as much as I know with you together, and this greater Body of Christ out here in the world that we’re beginning to know, that brings in the richness of Christ.
(J) All submitted and all surrendered under the Spirit, and then He brings His Body all together and there’s that perfect expression of that Body, and that’s just, it’s wonderful.
(M) It’s beyond what we could ever dream of church being; it’s way beyond that. It is such safety and security and the blanket of love, as you say, John, beautifully put.
(J) And I think that as long as you’re, you’re going on your logic… if you’re not a surrendered vessel all you’re going to do is go beat sheep. You may be right in what you see. You may be right in that it should be dealt with, but unless you’re submitted and surrendered the indwelling life is living out of your life. It’s off. It doesn’t matter what comes out, it’s off.
(M) It will be death to people.
(J) You’re submitted and you’re surrendered and then because you’re submitted and surrendered, that indwelling life can come forth from you with whatever His passion is. It’s not about your passion, it’s about His passion, and He can bring His passion for His child, Jennifer, and He can reach out and say ‘I am hungry for you. I have to have you’. And that’s delicious and wonderful. But if you just say ‘I don’t like that about Jennifer’, how gross is that? Maybe God’s not on that at all. So the premise, the ultimate premise has to be submission and surrender to His Spirit and to His moving and His life living in us, and beyond that… If you don’t have that, forget it! You’ll just be like the Taliban going beating people with a stick that don’t like you to dress in this way, or don’t do this.
(M) Right. No different.
(J) It’s just religiosity, and it’s grotesque. But if you’ve got the indwelling life in you, then wherever His eye is searching to and fro is coming out of your eyes and He can see and then grab and say, “Auuuh, this is what I’m on right this very minute,” and bring His message. Then, that’s beautiful.
(M) I’m thinking of one time that we were having a kind of a bigger meeting, just, but private. And we were getting ready for that meeting, and you said to me several times, “Martha, how are you feeling? What’s going to happen?” And I said, “Oh, I’m fine, I think it’s going to be wonderful.” And, but your, your, your question was strange. Well, we go to the meeting and I’m fine. And we’re chatting and sharing and I’m speaking, and all of a sudden the Spirit rose in me in this enormous confrontation. I was not ‘in it.’ I was not involved. I didn’t even feel that way, but He rose in me, and you knew it was coming.
(J) I could, I could feel it.
(M) And I had no clue. He kept me completely out of it, so that I would be out of it, because it was very frightening. And when it was over, I just had to, I laid on the floor horrified. And it was far more evil than I knew was present in our midst. And ah… But as Jennifer said God knew what it was, and it was later revealed.
(Carole) Sometimes, with me, I was so steeped in my own religion and delusions, and built my own prison against the very thing that I needed, which was Him and His love, that it takes a blast to knock you off your foundation. And I think about John the Baptist, when the Pharisees and the Sadducees came out for baptism and repentance, he said, “You brood of vipers, why are you here?” And these were men that knew, they were the, they were the top religious people who knew, probably scripture from front to back, but their hearts were totally wrong and totally deluded. And he said bring forth fruit that is consistent with repentance; let your lives prove your change of heart. And when He, the Lord came and through this Body had to say to me in essence, “You brood of vipers, what are you here for? What is your purpose? Bring forth fruits of repentance; bring forth the fruits of repentance.” And it is what has saved my life and continues to save my life, for Him, for His purpose and for His will and for this Body. And Paul said in 2 Corinthians 7, he said yet, to the Corinthians he said, “I am glad now, not because you were pained, but because you were pained into repentance that turned you to God. For you felt a grief such as God meant you to feel, so that in nothing you might suffer loss through us, or harm for what we did, for godly grief and the pain God has permitted to direct”…God permitted to direct… “produce a repentance that leads and contributes to salvation and deliverance from evil, and it never brings regret.”
(M) Where is that? Corinthians?
(Carole) Corinthians seven, nine and ten. And that is what He does, through His confrontations. He, He brings us to Himself. He brings us to the place where the strongholds and the resistance are brought down so that we will know the very love that He longs and aches to pour into us, so that then that same love can be poured out and into those who need Him and want Him the same way. So I praise Him. And Jennifer, I tell you; your life is such a testimony of Him and a testimony of what, what the repentance brings. And you know the love of God in your heart of hearts. You truly grasp His love that is the fruit of repentance. That is the fruit of repentance; it’s His love, isn’t it?
(M) Well, this is what I’m thinking of so I’ll just share it. But there’s someone new coming among us, and just so dear to me; I’m just so in love with this person. And I said, “I do want you to know this is the most wonderful safe place to be, but it’s also the most dangerous against any wrongs, I’ll say, or any evils.” And they said, “I know, I know.” (Martha laughs.) I don’t know how they knew. But it is, it is, that’s what church is. It’s the safest place to be wrong. It’s the safest place to be corrected. But it’s the most dangerous place if you have an agenda of your own, or an unbroken will, or you’re not born again, or you’re a child of Satan, or you’re a spy. It’s very dangerous for that kind of person. The person who won’t be corrected, it’s very dangerous.
(J) It’s not family, you know? Family deals with things among family. And someone to have a false agenda against family is not part of the family, and so they’re revealed. “You’re not part of the family, you’ve got some, you know we’re the Smith’s, and you’ve got Jones,” you know? (John laughs) And this doesn’t workk. That’s not the agenda here.
(Carole) And you’ve said, John, that the discipline of the Lord proves that you are not a bastard.
(J) Absolutely. So it is familial, and ah…
(M) Ah, wow, let’s read it. God help you if He leaves you alone. (Everyone laughs.) (In background: that’s very plain.) This is that wonderful Heb.12:6, “For the Lord corrects and disciplines everyone who He loves. And He punishes, even scourges”, and that’s the same word used for Jesus beating. In the Greek it’s that very same word. “He punishes, even scourges every son whom He accepts and welcomes to His heart and cherishes.” You must submit to and endure correction for discipline; God is dealing with you as sons. If a person will not take correction, they are not a son. That’s been my experience.
(J) And they’re not a part of your family.
(M) And family is church. “God is dealing with you as sons, for what son is there whom his father does not train and correct and discipline. Now if you’re exempt from the correction, left without discipline in which all of God’s children share, you are an illegitimate offspring and not true sons at all.” Thank you Carole. And the New American says “bastard.” You’re fatherless, and illegitimate. You’re not part of that family of God. There’s a very simple test of the false prophet. It’s so simple that it’s frightening. It’s 1Jn.4:6, “We belong to God. And those who belong to God hear us, and if they don’t listen to you, it means they don’t belong to God. They’re not of God.” It’s exactly what your saying, family. “And by this we know the Spirit of Truth and the spirit of error.” And the spirit of error they’re talking about is anti-Christ. We’re entering the great massive, vomiting of hell that’s bringing out anti-Christ, and we have to know, Church. The Church must be able to discern by the Spirit; not by judging, not by human logic, not by human opinion, not by condemnation, but by the Spirit. I’ve walked with people for years and years and was kept from knowing the real heart. God kept me from knowing. But when it was time to see it, it was all splayed out.
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