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The Divine Sculptor
2 November 2013
With Martha Kilpatrick and hosted by John Enslow
Special guests: Jacquelyn Nawrocki, Jennifer Wentzel and Carole Nelson
(Jacquelyn) I’m going back to the sculpture. When God puts His chisel to our stone, sometimes sparks fly. When the chisel hits the stone sometimes sparks fly. Sometimes big chunks come off, and sometimes just dust comes off, and that’s all I have to say, but I’m just, I’m just thinking about how He works with us. Sometimes He blasts us almost like dynamite, but sometimes it’s just a little dust, just a little dust here and there.
(Jennifer) When you guys were talking about the copy of David, my thought also was we’re not meant to be copies. We’re absolutely individual. We’re absolutely individual, and He is a God of such vast resources and beauty that there is no possible way to be beautiful as He seeks you if you’re not willing to be you. If you are trying to be a lifeless copy of somebody else, and I love it because it actually made me think of, in the jealousy thing when you were saying if you see something else that somebody has that you want, ask God to give it to you as it would be yours, individual. So I think that is something else that is guarded in your message of Him and Who He is in you is that, uhm, there, there… Whenever groups of people get together, there’s automatically, it feels like a pull to conform and nobody rock the boat and everybody be kind of the same. In this group I have to say it’s dynamically not that ever. And I was kind of worried, because every church I’d ever been to said, this is the line you come on. And the truth is I always thought of it as, you know, I was by myself in that, but I think that in fact nobody really wants that. That is such a satanic thing that says ‘leave you at home and become just this faceless, nameless, void form, that is not dynamically you’, because it is the anti-God. It is the anti-Christ. It is anti-Who He is, because He is explosively unique in every person. And I, I just, I, I love that in this group, and seeing, seeing how He builds and grows, but we’re not the same. For all that His life in us flows through and bears that likeness, it is not sameness. Likeness is not sameness somehow.
(M) And Jennifer, that’s the other thing that was wrong with the Quaker’s.
(M) They all had the same furniture. They all had the same dress. They all had the same houses. They all had the same everything, and that is true death.
(Jacquelyn) It’s the difference between the adult and the child, the copying. I was a child and I copied being an adult, but I wasn’t an adult. I was a fool. Thinking I was wise, I became a fool. And that’s what they do, is it not? They copied being an adult, and they turned to be Pharisee’s.
(Jacquelyn) But what’s the scripture? The wisest? “I didn’t give it to the wise and intelligent.” I don’t know what. “I gave it to the babes.”
(M) And what it was about, and Jesus rejoiced greatly in the Spirit over that, “I thank You, Father, that it was Your pleasure to hide it from the wise and intelligent and reveal it to the babes.” That was Your pleasure.
(J) Because the wise and intelligent will just eat it, take it unto themselves and kill it. It’s not, it’s not an expression of life and light. It’s an expression of mastery.
(Jennifer) I think the Amish do that too. They have to wear drab clothes and all the rest of that because they believe it will provoke pride. It will, vanity, pride, that all these things will be aroused by color even, by beauty. And it is such, oh, that’s so evil.
(M) And what I’m learning that I don’t want to know is how the youth of the Amish have a secret, mad life. I don’t know how many, but it is, that element is huge there. They go berserk and have a whole different life outside the Amish family that is wild as any; probably more wild than most.
(Jennifer) Ok, well you’ve always said that legalism is a breeding ground for immorality, and often of the worst, most depraved kind. And it makes me wonder, is it because that the main point of legalism is to squelch beauty?
(Jennifer) To starve it, yes.
(Jennifer) Individuality. And it’s the same thing in, in, you know, Hasidic Jews, in every little sect that’s like that, that is that rigid. But the main thing that they’re rigid about is any explosion of individuality or beauty. The simplest beauty like having an apron that’s not black, color, color itself. And so I look at it and I go, how can you go outside? How can you go outside because it’s an explosion of hue’s and tint’s and, and color’s, and even the grayest day has millions of shades at work. It’s unimaginable, absolutely unimaginable.
(M) And this is why you’re falling in love with nature, Jennifer, because you’re falling in love with God. But, someone wrote me a letter. She had poignantly come to repentance, deep, deep repentance, because of the statement I quoted of Kierkegaard, who said, “Consciousness of our eternal responsibility is to become an individual.” I’m misquoting it. I’ve got to memorize it. Ok. Kierkegaard said, “The consciousness of our eternal responsibility is the responsibility to become an individual.” And she said, because she came out of a religious background, she said, “I have never assumed the responsibility to be an individual.” And she didn’t say this, but as a result she was irresponsible in every area. If you won’t be responsible to become who God made you to be, you’ll be irresponsible everywhere. You might be working hard and doing stuff and carrying on and going and doing, but if you… That is the basic. It’s a staggering statement because I believe it fully. My basic responsibility is to become who God made me to be, not who I think I should be, or who you think I should be. Every institution does it, Jennifer. Every human group will deny you the right to just ‘be’. And to be in your stage of growth, and be in your foolish place, and ah, it’s to be able to know what He’s after is the beginning of becoming it. And what He’s after, Jacquelyn, the remedy is to bring us down to that basic primal self, and let God form it. I still could go to tears over Michael Angelo’s David, because I don’t know how he took a cold piece of marble, and he made this thing so exquisite and alive. And the position of his hand, and everything about him, he pulled it, he carved it out of that marble. Now if Michael Angelo could do that by God’s calling in a piece of marble, what can Christ do with you and me? And we don’t want to miss it. I… Did you talk about your eyes while I was gone, your surgery?
(M) I can tell you what He’s done with you, Carole. He wants your countenance. That’s why He did it. Your countenance is going to be different. It’s there, and He’s removing something that hindered it. Your glow is typical, and your countenance will be different. That’s what I see as His reason. It’s not just beauty, which it is. It is going to be so He can look out of your eyes like He does.
(Carole) It’s a funny little thing. I need a new ‘handle.’ I need a new, ah, e-mail address; His Father’s eyes. I want my Father’s eye’s. He wants to look out of His eyes. I don’t know what all that means. It’s a mystery. It’s a mystery to me.
(M) But there it is.
(Carole) But there is it.
(M) Ok, I want to tell Carole’s, open this up, and I’m gonna to tell about her, the surgery on her eyelids. In the months after Don’s death, Carole cried so that her eyelids were . This is a gift from God. Receive it and do it. And she wouldn’t have done it.
(J) She absolutely wouldn’t have done it, and it was literally, it was her eyelids were rolling over on, starting to be onto her eyelashes. They were starting to cover her, you know, so it was a problem.
(M) And it was heavy. Her eyelids were heavy. She was perfectly willing to live with it, didn’t have any problem with it. But I knew that God gave that, and I had a strong sense that she was to receive it. And it was easy and beautiful and wonderful and loving experience. And she did it, really, in obedience, cuz she really didn’t need it for vanity. She didn’t particularly want to go through it, but God gave the gift, and it was blessed and easy and so forth. And I really see that He does want her eyes to be visible and the countenance that’s behind her eyes is Christ.
(Carole) And the end result of this, at least that I see now, is Him. I see Him. He has broken down further boundaries in my box that I put Him in. I would never have imagined. I called it vanity. I really, that was my human, sinful assessment of that. And He blasted that wide open as my Father, my Father, Who cares just so intimately, and proves Himself through this to me more intimately than I ever experienced Him before.
(M) And Carole, it’s for you, but it is for the Son. The Father did it for the Son in you, and that I didn’t see until this morning when I looked at you. Yes, you get to enjoy the manifestation that God wants of His Son in you. That’s holy. That’s divine, and that is beauty. And I was pondering this morning. My dear friend Gabby has done a picture for me. And she found this passage for me. I didn’t tell her. I think God gave it to her. And it’s Psalm 45, and she’s pulled out simple words from it, like ‘consider and incline your ear to hear’, and ‘consider and forget’. And what you forget… And I was pondering it this morning thinking, what are You trying to say to me Lord? If You’re trying to have me leave, not just my father’s house, to forget it, and not consider it anymore, but to all humanities view, to leave every, every tie to this earth and to humanity. You’re calling on me to leave it, and that You would, whatever that means, “He will desire your beauty.” And part of the verse is, “bow to Him, He is your Lord.” And that is a huge command. You bowed to Him for this surgery, and you bowed to me, and you bowed to your daughter. But the end of it is, bow to Him. If you’re bowing to some ascetic, pre-conceived idea… Mine was not so religious. It was no. It was simply no. You can’t have that. You can’t have any of it, no, just simply no. Nothing religious about it, just negative. And that’s sort of ‘my father’s house’, that He’s calling me to forget that. I’m saying ‘yes.’ I’m saying such a ‘yes’ that it will blow your mind away and obliterate your idea of me. And so, He’s doing it in your life too. This is our corporate experience that’s going to be going on. And it is to find out. It’s for the Son. It’s to manifest… I’m so ‘on it’, that our verse is “to manifest the Son”, to let Him be seen. That can only take place if you leave your father’s, your false, your earthly father, whatever it is, the church, the spouse, the whatever, whatever. (Someone in background says: your preference.)
(Carole) Your own legal doctrines of what you have determined is, is the how to’s, the way, the right versus the wrong. (In background: your own account.)
(M) You’re right, Carole. Right, good, good, you gave me this clue. You are leaving your desire to please that ‘father’s house’, whether it’s society, the church, the business, the family, whatever. You have to leave pleasing anybody but He Who is your Beloved, and to Whom you bow. And in order to forget your father’s house, and leave all that represents, you have to bow. He is your Lord. Bow to Him.
(Carole) You may have said this, but this comes, and it’s pleasing me. It’s pleasing what I think. Pleasing me. You probably already said that.
(J) Ok, so by the time this actually comes out, it’ll all be done. We can honestly say that you, yeah, Merry Christmas, really. (Laughter.) You will have new e-booklets. You will have new website. You will have new app. The, just as a rehash here, Shulamite.com is being revamped so that it is a hub of a wheel to the rest of the content. The Shulamite app will feature all of that on it, so the current app has, you know, Illuminations. It had Manna. It had article series. Now all of that content is being drawn from all of these other resources: GetAlongWithGod.com, the ReadMK.com, the LivingChristianBooks.com, the Shulamitepodcasts.com. So all those… Basically the app is now kind of a hand held hub of Shulamite.com. So that’s really gonna be cool. And we’re really excited about that. And I’ve locked Rapunzel (Martha) in the tower several times, and so by the time this comes out we will have actually probably two booklets, brand new booklets on Kindle. So that’s gonna be awesome. And basically on Facebook, I’d said there’s a bunch coming up, and it looks like by the time this comes out, because of the length of this podcast, it will all be out. Merry Christmas! Exactly what you said. So, we thank you for listening. Thank you for Christ’s life that is poured forth from this amazing group and life source. It’s just, we can see Him, and I’m just so grateful for that, and go get your app. Go get your booklets. Go visit the sites. Go have fun!
(Jennifer) Zoom around.
(J) Zoom around.