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April 20, 2014
With Martha Kilpatrick and hosted by John Enslow
Special guests: Jennifer Wentzel and Carole Nelson
(M) For a couple of days now, actually for my lifetime in the Lord, which is the only lifetime I have. So I’m actually only 46 (laughing!) and maybe, maybe I’m 65, because I may have been saved at 12, but we’ll say… ok. But all my life this verse has gotten to me, “Where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst.” Now, I know what two and three means – people. “Gathered together in My Name.” I don’t know what that means. “I am there in their midst.” I don’t know what that means. That’s been my view of it all these years, and I’m still not satisfied. But I’ve got an old book that deals with this verse, and I just, the anointing on it is so great that I just read two pages, and I’m changed. And the Holy Spirit is giving me revelation that’s not even in the book. The first thing He showed me is that one is a sheep, two is a flock, and He is after the flock. He is after the church. But before that it’s really a lesson in prayer. First it’s about, “If a brother sins you tell him his fault. If he listens to you, you’ve won your brother. If he does not listen to you, you take church, one or two more with you so that by the mouth of the church, every fact may be confirmed.” And we have done that numbers of times with people. We’ve gone to people, one on one, then two, then three, then ten witnesses of the same thing. And sometimes people won’t hear then, and at that point you’re free to tell it anywhere. You’re to warn the church against that person, because they will not hear what the flock, the church… The church has to be heard. Now you know my concept of church is wherever Christ is Head, that’s church. If Christ is not head, that’s not church. May be coming, may someday at some point, but it’s hopefully moving toward church. Let me just stop and tell this. I go to our Dahlonega Methodist Church when I can and when I’m down there, and I love it. I’m always blessed, and I just have a good time. I’m not a member, but I love that church. And even when it’s not right, I still have a feeling for that church. So, the general church, the organized church meetings are the big meeting that are opened to everybody. Then there’s the teaching meetings. Nee talks about several different levels of meeting. Then there’s the cell, what we call now the cell group. Every church that has cell group operating in the United States is a successful church. Do you have something to say?
(J) Well, I want to just say something that when I first started listening to you, you were going through at that time “The Spirit and the Wind” messages. And in that series you have one message in particular called, “Christ, the Head.” And that confirmed to me, just really dramatically and drastically that church is only where Christ is head. And you empowered me with that message, not only to seek Him as head in the Body that I was with, but you released me. It is such a, wouldn’t you say that it was a dynamic message? I mean, it is a dynamic message. I mean, you know, I’ve heard and read things from Gene Edwards about home church and stuff like that. There was something about that “Christ, the Head” that literally infused me with a passion for it and to seek it. And it gave me a complete release and an understanding of what that looks like, why I should seek that, and why I should desire that. And so, I’m real grateful for that message in particular out of there. All of those messages about the Spirit, is just, you know, real powerful. But that one in particular about Christ being the head, and so, when you’re saying all this, this is really cool because you had in that message the vision of it and the release of it. And so, this is just a further extension of that, and I’ve been living this. I’ve been living this with you and with Shulamite for years. And, you know, I’m an only child, and I could have come and sought as an only child a single relationship to be just me and you. But you gave me a vision for something so much higher, where you said, “I want you to open your heart wider,” and you did it even in that message. Even in that message, it’s a call. It’s a call, it’s a call. And then there was a desire infused in me that I knew was, that it resonated with my spirit a big yes, because I was in a church that I’m going, I’ve got camaraderie. I’ve got family, fellowship, but there wasn’t this unified Body life where literally my heart and your heart are knit, and I look out for you. I am my brother’s keeper. I am my brother’s keeper, and see, that’s been an amazing thing that you’ve taught me. You know, you look at who said, “Am I my brother’s keeper?” I don’t want to be that person. No, I want to be my brother’s keeper. I want to look at brother and say, ooo ee ooo ah. That’s, that’s responsibility. Not only is it responsibility, but it’s integrity. It’s not integrity to walk with someone and not help them. So anyway…
(Jennifer) Or even see them.
(J) Well, that’s right! Yeah, because, and it does. It does cost you. It’s costly. You have to, you have to expose yourself and lay yourself out and exert energy and emotion and life.
(Martha) And enormous pain.
(J) It hurts. It does. It hurts. But the reward is so beautiful and wonderful. I mean, I love this one over here. And I love this one over here. And I love this one over here. I look at this face and I, you know, I enjoy seeing this face. I love the face… OOOOOooooo yeah, and see, and there you go back into the Love Reigns message with the hallowing. And that’s it. It’s a hallowing.
(Carole) The knitting creates the hallowing. Hallowing is born out of the knitting. I don’t know if that’s the right sequence, but there is a deep valuing, hallowing of the person that is now holy. You feel the holiness of God in that person.
(J) You love the Body because it’s the Body of Christ. It’s just, it’s…
(Jennifer) It’s not just a group of friends or even family, because it’s way more than that. There is authority in this Body, but at any given time that authority could rest on Carole or on Jim and they can come to me and say, “You need to be de-wormed.” But you know I’m using that analogy. I mean, animals take care. You get caught in stuff. You trot over stuff. You go down a little path you shouldn’t have gone down and you’re dumb and you’re stupid, and you need somebody who’s like, “hello!” You know? And that’s way more than just a friend. That’s way more than someone to have dinner with, to hang out with, to talk life. It’s a lot more than that, and that… Because at any given time any person in this Body is not just a vessel for Him. Of course they’re a vessel for Him, but they can literally be a vessel for His authority coming down in my life. That imbues everyone, not just the authority, but that makes everyone precious, I think. And there’s… It’s funny because no matter how long I’ve been with this Body… You know that old saying, “Familiararity breeds contempt?” Right? But in the Body it’s the exact opposite. It’s a deepening respect because you have no idea who you’re going to meet that day. Are you going to meet a fellow sheep or are you going to meet someone that Jesus says I’m going to sit here today and I’m going to have something to say? And it’s not, it’s all under authority. It’s all perfect somehow, but it’s, you can’t take anyone for granted, and you don’t want to, because you just never know when someone’s gonna go from sheep to king. I don’t know if that even makes sense.
(Carole) I think it’s because we know that we know that we belong. We belong to Him and Ephesians 1 that we’ve been memorizing, it’s about belonging. He is so rich in kindness and grace because we belong. And He has poured out His grace on those who belong to His dear Son. And somehow when He makes us Body, when He knits us together we know we belong. And in that belonging comes that hallowing and that, that deep respect. And which includes the open display of love in the form of both correction and blessing and… effusiveness.
Thank you for posting this! I too, have a book about the Flock called, “The Flock and the Kingdom” by Richard H. Akeroyd. The Lord showed me out of Numbers 27:16,17 that the Shepherd he has set up will be a man which can go out before them (sheep), and which may go in before them, and which may bring (gather) them out, or which may bring (gathered) them in. This is also found in 1Samuel 18:16 concerning David and our True Shepherd in John 10:16. There is a difference between a “Fold” and a “Flock”, one is surrounded by walls (hedges), where they’re not free to go out or come in, and the other (Flock) is free to go out or come in because they know and love their Shepherd. Please order the book I mentioned too. What a Wonderful Shepherd we have!! God bless you at Shulamite!
I,m not in a formal church setting where our group comes together to fellowship. But where there is two or more of us God said he is in the mist, I agree Church is where God is the head; God is the head of my life, and this body. All that I am I owe it all to God my father in the name of Jesus.
Having no formal church where I am currently, I was missing that ‘Easter Sunday’ feeling of fellowship. Thank you for talking about the exact topic I am faced with this morning…thank you, Jesus, for hearing my heart’s cry.
aaaah. so wonderfully spoken ….
I so appreciate how each of you is able to express so well the groan, the deep angst in my spirit …
yes, we are to love BUT to truly love there must be this honoring ….
and you have touched on this so tenderly …