Light and Glory
May 18, 2014
With Martha Kilpatrick and hosted by John Enslow
Special guests: Jennifer Wentzel, Carole Nelson and Jim Pierce
(Martha) I remember that years and years ago, when we were just meeting here in the mountains, someone was determined to come here. And so, I finally said come on. We’re busy, but just come on. And she came here and very much ravaged the sheep at a meeting, and a young man believer was quite troubled and disturbed in his faith because of her. She brought legalism. And then she got very sick. And then she got very judgmental, and we virtually escorted her down the mountain. And I said to her, “You have come under a light. It’s you that are sick. We’re not sick. It’s you that are sick.” And she left.
(J) The amazing thing about it is, it’s not focused on darkness, because I’m not gonna come in here and be like sniff, sniff, sniff, because that’s gonna be my focus and then Christ isn’t the focus. If I’m always looking for where the dark area is, that’s disgusting. It’s natural. It’s just natural. I don’t care what your particular darkness is until Christ’s light is on it. But when it’s on it, prrrew! It’s on it. And then the power to deal with it is there too. And the anointing is there to bring it to light. So that’s all, that’s all great. Because I just don’t want, I’m not interested in a sniffing fest. I mean, at any point I can say, “Sniff, that stinks.” Well, big deal. That’s nothing.
(Jennifer) Well, I just had a picture between John talking about the light and Carole talking, and Martha, you saying we are the light of the world and all that. That light, I just saw that in Body life that light is absolutely relentless when it comes to humiliating pride in any form for the purpose of humility though. That’s the thing. So we’re the light of the world, and yet it’s so funny because the more light that shines in my life absolutely the less superior I feel, and the less inferior I feel. And the more it comes part of the unity that I feel that Body life is because there’s not a single one of us that hasn’t had that light shine down, expose us, humiliate our pride, not to mock, not to hurt, not to scorn, not to single out, not to shame, for the purpose of humility, to heal, to make whole. It is the integrity of my relationship with Him that is upheld by that light. That that light comes to protect, it is for the purpose of hallowing, for sanctification, but it was just remarkable to me that a lot of people think that the process of sanctification,… I think there’s this, and maybe it’s old wounds from dealing with legalistic people, but you think that there’s a superiority that comes with the brightness of the light. And I have found it to be the exact opposite. That light shines so brightly because there is love there, and there is acknowledgement of what it means to be human and to need to be sanctified. And it is the growth of humility, not superiority. And it is the growth of humility, not, “oh, I’m an inferior, shameful, horrible thing.” It is coming into an acceptance and a love for humanity that frankly is not natural to humanity. (laughing) Like humans don’t like humans, and it’s His, it’s His love and empathy and compassion. And I just…
(Martha) You have given one of the most wonderful defenses of the light I’ve ever heard, and the glory of the light. There is glory in the light, and you’ve just… It should be written, but it made me think of my, one the most chilling and one of the most favorite verses to me is John 3:19. Well, 18 is, “He who believes in Christ, who trusts in Him never comes up for judgment. For him there is no rejection, no condemnation. But he who does not believe, cleave, rely on, trust in Him is judged already. He has been convicted and received his sentence because he has not believed and trusted in the name of the only begotton Son of God. The basis of that judgment, the test by which men are judged, the ground for the sentence lies in this: that life has come into the world and people have loved darkness rather than and more than the light for their deeds were evil. Every evil doer, every wrong doer hates, loathes, detests the light and will not come out into the light, but shrinks from it lest his works, his deeds, his activities, his conduct be exposed and reproved.” So, see, we’ve had many, many people over the years refuse the light and love darkness more than light because their private deeds and thoughts and motives were evil. So that’s a huge part of Body life that most people do not know about the function of a Body. The function of a flock is… Suppose you’re in the field, and I’ve seen our sheep do this. Suppose there’s 40 sheep in the field, ewe lambs. Suppose just one sees a danger and starts running. Then all will run. Do you get it? If one member of this Body alerts me to danger that I don’t see, then I’m going after it. We can’t see everything individually. God will not allow us to. Body life is a requirement for destiny, for life, for health. We’re gathering together right now around the health of someone and the victory is assured, because we gathered as a Body. John walked in the door with the faith and the word. And the person is a distant member of this Body. She’s a member, but she’s not able to be here. But she is well aware that this Body has stood for her life, and God has heard. So, here’s the distinction. It’s not the light that is the issue. It’s who you are when you come in contact with the light. You can love your darkness so that you will want to extinguish the light that’s there. And if you can’t do that, which you can’t in a good, strong Body life, you discredit it to the public and become the victim of it. That’s how dark, darkness can go. “He who practiced the truth, who does what is right comes into the light so that his works may be plainly shown to be what they are wrought with God, divinely prompted, done with God’s help and dependence on Him.” That was the end of Jesus’ discourse. I just read, probably in Sparks, that the purpose of the Body of Christ is to manifest Jesus. I never knew you could do that on a podcast. I never dreamed that was the purpose of the podcast. I thought the podcast was just testimony and sharing. No, no. It’s the manifestation of Christ by this Body.
(Carole) You went to 3:18? I went to 3:10.
(Jim) Me too.
(Martha) Two witnesses.
(Jennifer) Two witnesses.
(Carole) I read it right there. When you said that, “It is to the intent that now the manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places.”
(Martha) Read it again, Carole, if you don’t mind. It’s too big for me.
(Carole) Can I start in verse 8? “To me, whom am less than the least of all the saints this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God, who created all things through Jesus Christ to the intent that now the manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places.”
(Jennifer) In verse 9 in the Holman it says, “and to shed light for all about the administration of the mystery hidden for ages in God who created all things.”
(Martha) Amplified verse 10, “The purpose is that through the church, the complicated, many sided wisdom of God in all its infinite variety and innumerable aspects might now be made known to the angelic rulers and authorities, principalities and powers in the heavenly sphere.” It’s, oh my goodness, it’s not to manifest the church to the world, but to the heavens.
(Martha) To the heavens.
(Carole) I feel like it’s a vindication of God to the whole of the universe, which includes the three heavens. And, and, and the manifold, the multi-faceted… What I see in that is the multifaceted parts…
(Carole) Individuals in that Body.
(Martha) In one of my earliest revelations when the Charismatic movement hit in the 70’s, one of my earliest revelations again was to fight for the solitary relationship with Christ, because said in Corinthians about the church, “individually you are members of one Body.” And I spoke on it. You have to be an individual to be a valid, useful member of the Body. If you’re not an individual, having been developed into your own identity and having an individual relationship with Christ, you’re not ready for the Body. You’ll be a blood sucking leach on the Body.
(Carole) Somehow there is a difference between individual and independent. Big, big, big difference. That you can remain in your individuality in total independence from…
(Martha) And yet, Carole, you can’t be an individual apart from God and the Body. It’s a real paradox. You have to be alone with God to be who you are, but you still can’t be who you are without the Body as well. So, individually we are members of one Body.
(J) This is where it says in NLT. It says “The creator of all things had kept secret from the beginning this; God’s purpose in all this was to use the church to display His wisdom in its rich variety and to all of the unseen rulers and authorities in the heavenly places. This was His eternal plan, which He carried out through Christ Jesus, our Lord.” But it was, He wanted to use, His purpose was to use the church to display His wisdom, and He does that with light.