Secret of Loving Him
May 25, 2014
With Martha Kilpatrick and hosted by John Enslow
Special guests: Jennifer Wentzel, Carole Nelson and Jacquelyn Nawrocki
(Jennifer) I think all of us wanted to talk about the April CD of the Month, ‘The Secret of Loving Him,’ in part because it was so intensely personal, and, I think, raw on the part of Martha in terms of what she shared and how the Lord came even for the anointing of that message. But I think what is kind of exploding for us is what it means to face and accept the reality that in each one of us, it’s not just not loving God. It’s not just hating God. It is the actual murder of God, and, Carole, you had just talked about that murder. And I would love for you to expand.
(Carole) Well, as we were listening and Martha was talking about that the bottom of sin is really the realization and even the experience of knowing that I personally murdered God, and how I refused to go there because I, and I’ll say this from Carole, I’m afraid that He will swat me like a gnat for even daring to go there. And, of course, that exposes how I feel about Him from my heart anyway, that He would swat me like a gnat for daring to feel something that is obvious to Him, and He’s very comfortable with, and that He knows from beginning to end in my heart. But as we were talking about that, I began to wonder if our reluctance and our refusal to see and admit and confess and even allow ourselves to feel the depth of murdering Him does not keep us bound in the prison to continue to perpetuate that murder of Him. I saw it in regards to the revenge that I came to deal with years ago and perpetuating through my own bitterness toward my mother and my father. I perpetuated that revenge onto my children because I had never forgiven, admitted, confessed or forgiven my mother and my father for what I considered was wrong in their bringing me up. I just see as long as I continued in that revenge, even unconscious of it, for a long, totally unconscious of it, really. But as long as I refused to deal with that bitterness, to deal with that revenge that I had because of that bitterness, then I was bound in the prison of perpetuating that and keeping on in that murder, really, the murder of God.
(Jacquelyn) I saw something through, with this conversation I was having with this young man, and he was saying to me, he was telling me about his friend, and he was telling me how busy his friend was. And he went on at great lengths to tell me how busy his friend was. And at the end of the conversation, and he even said, “I think he’s too busy.” And at the end of the conversation I said, “Do you miss him?” He said, “Ok, I’ll admit it. I miss him.” And I saw through that that, ok, he circled the wagon. He never got to the wagon. And I circle the wagon with my hatred of God and my murder of God and my revenge of God, but I never got ‘to the wagon.’ I never admitted my hatred of Him. I never admitted my murder of Him. So it was, “Forgive me, forgive me, forgive me, forgive me for this, forgive me for that, forgive me for revenge. I’m on the word, the act or permission, and previously I’ve said that in the conference I felt like John gave permission to the men to feel what they feel and to be who they are. And I felt like that this CD of the Month with all its, can I say it’s earthy rawness, that Martha was giving permission. I have never read what she said. I have never heard it except from her, and it needs to be out there. And I just felt like that God through Martha was giving permission. He can take it. I’m on the scripture, “May you have the power as all God’s people should to know how wide, how long, how high and how deep God’s love is.” And that’s how wide and long and deep His love is, that He can take that.
(Martha) I think I have often shocked people with the things I say to God. I don’t blaspheme Him. I don’t, I don’t ever believe when I tell Him how upset I am with Him, I don’t ever believe I’m right. I think that’s a big distinction to make. I know He’s right. I know He’s good. Sometimes I have a problem coming into that belief, but I never say You… I can say to Him, “You hurt me,” but I could never say, “You wronged me,” because He can’t. And that’s the distinction. I never go to Him and believe I’m right and He’s wrong. I may feel it, but in the depths of my being I don’t accuse Him of being wrong. I say, “Here I am and this is how I feel about You.” And He solves it. In the stories I tell on that CD, I tell how I say to Him, “What You going to do with me? Here I am.” And I don’t, I don’t quite know how I got to the place of such raw honesty with Him, but it’s from the very beginning of my walk in my twenties. I don’t understand that, because I was never free to speak freely and honestly in my home. That I didn’t, I had to swallow everything and say, “Yes, Sir,” so, which was just fine for me. But for me God was not that way. He was comfortable. He was accessible. He knew everything anyway. What was the point of hiding any thought from Him because He just, He knows your heart. He knows you better that you know you. And in Psalm 15, I think it is. Yeah, Psalm 15, David gives the conditions to have the presence of God. And they are very meaningful to me. You have to have a certain, “Who shall dwell temporarily in Your tabernacle, in Your presence? Who shall dwell permanently on Your holy hill?” And that means being in the presence of God and God’s presence being with you. We can come in and out, but David gives the condition for permanent enjoyment of His presence. And the first one is, “live uprightly and blamelessly, who works rightness and justice and speaks and thinks the truth in his heart.” Anyway, you can go on and decide that, but it’s also, “in whose eyes the vile person is despised, but He honors those who fear the Lord.” So it’s, “He who does these things will never be moved.” But one of them is speaking the truth in your heart, and that, God can handle, as you said, He can handle anything. He can solve anything. But if we don’t go to Him in truth, then we have nothing. We don’t have, we aren’t able to hear Him. I go to Him with my raw… I did it yesterday… With my raw anguish and crying out to Him. And I remember reading one time, dealing with a family issue for many years and one day I read when Israel cried out, then God answered, and I thought, “Dear God, I’ve struggled for twenty years, but I never have cried out to be delivered. How stupid I am.” And so, I’ve learned to cry out. That is a level of honesty, too, that I have had to acquire. So yesterday I was crying out and all of a sudden it was like turning… I said, “You’ve got to help me.” And it was like turning off a TV. Poof! Poof! All that anguish was simply gone. I don’t know how He did it. I don’t know what He did, but He took my anguish and just ended it, poof, because I asked Him to. So I can’t imagine not being just down and dirty honest with God, because nothing gets solved unless you do that. That is a form of confession. It’s a form of intimacy. We want intimacy and all this lovely stuff, but we don’t go to Him with the intimacy of my suffering and anguish. So when I did that CD, I felt really naked and vulnerable, and like I’ve never heard anyone say this but me that I literally killed Jesus. I never heard anybody say that, so I can’t take it back because it was too vivid an experience of the Spirit. But I thought that is so, I’m sure there might be people out there that say, “Well, I would never hate God like that.” Well, I’m sorry, go ahead if you can get by with that, go right ahead. But He made it, even in the telling of it, He made it so clear to me that iniquity, which is the worst of sin, is to hate God. And there are only two kinds of inheritances, very simple. One is to hate God. You come from, I think John had prophecy that he came from a long line of God haters, and he has broken that generation. Other inheritances of those who love God. There’s only two kinds of inheritance, and we don’t get it that Phariseeism is the most extreme hatred of God, because it’s what Proverbs says, “Those who hate God would feign obedience.”