Podcast: Download (7.3MB)
The God Who Sees
October 19, 2014
With Martha Kilpatrick and hosted by John Enslow
Special guests: Aaron, Carole Nelson and Jennifer Wentzel
(Aaron) I was just thinking that verse, “Perfect love casts out fear” in light of what you’re saying, where we carry the very reality of His existence to cast out non-existence. Like even with the boat we talked about the other day, Peter’s in it. The Lord calls him; he steps out on the waves. And the waves attack His existence, Christ’s existence. If Peter looks around and says through the prison of self-consciousness and all that and says, “You don’t exist. You don’t… so he fell ‘cause he took his eyes off of His existence. Because His existence sits on… It’s a greater reality that sits on top of natural reality, and natural reality… Everything in natural reality says, “He does not exist.” So we carry the very proof of His existence. It’s amazing.
(M) Ok. What we do in selfishness is we want to build our own vision, our own… We want to become what we want to be and call it God. They tell you to exist without needing. They tell you how to get everything so you can exist and you can prosper, but that is not way. The way is what I said earlier; to be more concerned, for Christ to be more concerned, about another person’s existence than you are about your own. And that’s how you exist; by that. But see, and I’ve tried to explain this before. He gives me, I’ll call it a vision or knowledge of the you, and I am the source of your knowing yourself, and coming to be yourself. That’s radical. That’s radical, John. You, we are the source of another’s identity.
(J) We validate it.
(M) We prove. It’s Paul Tournier, ‘cause he talked about becoming a person. And one of the things that I wanted to share, and here’s the moment the Lord brings it. One of the things he says is that when you’re a child, and this is another thing my mother was strong about and gave to me was absolute privacy. She would have never read a letter of mine or a journal of mine. She would never, never have invaded me to that degree. And she taught me that. But that was respect for my existence, my right to be right, to write whatever I wanted to write. Ok. Paul Tournier said, “You become a person when your mother gazes at you and your father gazes at you, and you know you’re seen. But you become an individual when you have a secret.” And one of the things in your home was you were allowed no privacy. He said when the parent demands, when the child comes to the place where he wants to have a secret from the parent that is his breech into becoming an individual.”
(M) And even so now, of us, if there’s…If in a marriage there’s a demand for every privacy, you lose your existence if you give it. You have to defend your right to have privacy. Nobody has the right to my heart. I exist.
(Aaron) Oh, my…
(J) Oh, wow.
(Carole) Say that last thing one more time. “Nobody has the right…
(M) Nobody has the right to the secrets of the heart. If I give it of my free choice, that’s ok. But you cannot demand that I owe you my secret heart, and I had to come to know that.
(Jennifer) I think it triggers whatever bitterness and vengeance against parents is there that hasn’t been faced or dealt with in any way, because the end of all of those… You were saying jealousy is murder, but any of those things left alone and nurtured end up in murder, and not just murder as we think of it. And I say this because my bitterness and my desire for revenge against Him, against God was so huge. I said it before and I put it in a post; I didn’t care if I went to hell as long as he was sitting next to me. It’s the complete nihilism of your world. That, I think, is the ultimate in Satanic hatred for humanity, because ultimately humanity as a whole was chosen by God. Were we not? So, it’s not just the Jews, although they have a special I would imagine, but Satan’s not interested in our worship. I think ultimately if he can catch somebody that way and kill them off and have them destroy themselves, that’s fantastic. But Satan is that, I think that level of nihilism; he knows the world is going to burn and he doesn’t care. As many people as he can have burn with him, he’s happy.
(M) Ok. That explains something to me. John said, “This person is not out to take over the ministry, to take your place and get rid of you and eliminate you from the memory of man, which is what God said. This person is out to destroy all of us, the whole thing.” And I couldn’t take it in, but that’s where the satanic jealously will go. It will go to not just to possess, but to obliterate, annihilate, and make non-existence. This person wanted us to not exist, like this person did not exist. To create…
(Carole) So they can exist.
(M) Oh, as the only one.
(Carole) So they can exist.
(M) Whoa. I didn’t see that.
(Carole) That’s the battle. That is the fight.
(M) Whew. This is so big.
(Carole) I’m just back on Yahweh and the breath that Mike talked about, because I know that so pierced me, and so that every time I breathe, I’m breathing… When I pulled back those draperies in Berchtesgaden and I gasped, I took in the breath of God, and I existed.
(J) It was like He was giving mouth to mouth with those mountains.
(Carole) He didn’t breathe on me. He breathed in me, and gave me life of existence.
(J) Oh, my gosh!
(Carole) Do you see what I’m saying?
(J) Mouth to mouth with the mountains!
(Carole) I didn’t know it. I didn’t know it, and Martha…
(Carole) And I’m thinking we went to Vienna to see Sandy after that. I didn’t know any of that. I hadn’t connected any of that. That’s why I knew it.
(Carole) That’s why I knew it even though I didn’t know it.
(M) You didn’t know what you knew. You just knew.
(Carole) I didn’t know what I knew. God had breathed my existence into me, though I existed to Him all along. That was never an issue. It didn’t exist to me.
(M) You did exist.
(Carole) I did exist. I always existed in Him. He sees; The God Who Sees is El Roi, ROI; The God Who Sees. And I looked that up, but… I always existed to Him. I’ve always been in His womb, but I didn’t exist to me, and it took His judgment. It took His confrontation, His judgment. It took all of that to put me in…
(M) His chastening.
(Carole) His chastening, all of that, to put me in a place of such desperation and need to exist. This morning we exist in Him. That’s when we exist, and we are outside of Him, and we are… We, meaning many, many, many, many, many are trying to find their existence somewhere else. And they can’t, but, they will do whatever they need. They will destroy. They will do anything.
(M) God, tell me why somebody would have it laid out; the love, the existence, the vision. Why would, why would they kill it?
(J) Because it’s…
(Carole) You will not die to, “I will be greater than.”
(M) …you. It’s that… And I wonder if it isn’t just that.
(Carole) I wonder. I don’t know. I don’t know, but…
(J) You’re saying I have to literally lay down my concept and my construct of myself. I have to have this dismantled, because literally it’s coming in and saying, “That’s not it. That’s not who you actually are.”
(Carole) “You have completely torn down my…”
(M) “My worth.”
(Carole) “My worth,” and that is exactly what God wants to do! He had completely torn down everything in me at that point. I don’t mean everything like I’m done, but you know, at that point, that day, that moment.
(M) You’re right, Carole. She would not be this…
(Aaron) Thinking when John was sharing kind of your question, the verse John 8. I’m gonna bounce around. “Jesus said, if you were Abraham’s children, you would be doing the works Abraham did, but now you seek to kill me.” He goes down and He says, “Why?” See, they wanted to kill His identity, His existence, destroy His existence off the face of the world. This is to the Pharisees, “You are of your father the devil. Your will is to do your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning and has nothing to do with the truth.” And then later in John 10 it says, “The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy” existence. “I came that they might find life and have it more abundant.” “I came that they might have” existence. And I was thinking what the amazing thing to me about John’s story is he broke the heritage of non-existence, and brought existence; the reality of his existence into that.
(Carole) We are seeing a ‘weapon of warfare’ to bring down the strongholds. And the ‘weapon’ in this case was repentance and forgiveness. Repentance is a ‘weapon of warfare’ and forgiveness is a ‘weapon of warfare.’
(M) He said it. “Perfect love casts out fear.” It’s violent. And He says it’s violent in Song of Songs, because I exist when I love.
(J) That’s it. That’s it.
(Aaron) And that love, that perfect love is the Father’s love for the Son that only dwells in union that casts out. God is love. His existence is that love that casts out non-existence, that there is no love; and I don’t exist because love doesn’t exist. Martha’s question, going back to something you said earlier. So about the mother looking at the child and everything, and the child’s response is knowing he’s seen? So it’s we exist when we know we’re seen and loved. That’s what you did. You saw them and loved them. You saw him in love.
(J) The ministry of existence.
The God Who Sees – Episode #411 – Shulamite Podcast
M: “The way is what I said earlier; to be more concerned, for Christ to be more concerned, about another person’s existence than you are about your own. And that’s how you exist; by that. ” (…) “I exist when I love.”
That’s the first commandment made alive. “Love God… and THEN… your neighbour.” In the Spirit’s mind this is a creative commandment. By loving God, who created us by the perfection of Love, we somehow (by that same Love in us) we create our neighbour back and into and towards His very image.
This is spiritually amazing.
M: Paul Tournier said, “You become a person when your mother gazes at you and your father gazes at you, and you know you’re seen. But you become an individual when you have a secret.”
Wow… that’s beyond!
A: “The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy”… existence. “I came that they might find life and have it more abundant.” “I came that they might have” existence.
Wow…. wow wow.
Carole’s cry of liberation is just shocking.
You are all blessed.
This Truth is so very amazing!!! …I could just listen to your sharing all day long!!!!
Thank you so, so much for opening your group this way… In all my life I have never come across a group of people so full of Love and in love with Christ… Listening to you has changed my life…
May our Father God continue blessing each one of you!
Dear Martha, when I read …”if in a marriage, there’s a demand for every privacy, you loose your existence if you give it”, I thought about the great mystery in Ephesians 5:29-33. I have often pondered the wonderful unity of Christ and His church, likened to a marriage. I somehow understand that unity does not mean uniformity, because then you also lose your existence.
Yet, somehow, this is also the platform where we “lose ourselves” in love.
Perhaps the secret here is that we CHOOSE to give our hearts. I also think that if we are not sufficiently healed, we can throw our pearls to swine.How dependant we are on Holy Spirit.
I am afraid of doing intellectual gymnastics, and so I remain blessed by your impartation, and walking out the mystery in wide eyed wonder – having made all the mistakes possible, being awed and blown away by every glimpse of Him, as revealed in this very podcast – ALWAYS leading to greater freedom.
Only Truth, in the person of Jesus Christ can do this for us!He certainly is not like any idol: He exists, He sees, and in His prophets, He also speaks.
Great grace to you in Jesus Christ.