December 14, 2014
With Martha Kilpatrick and hosted by John Enslow
Special guests: Jennifer Wentzel
(M) I used to know someone that would say often, “The ground is level at the cross.” And that’s what it is. We’re all sinners needing to be saved. So, the fire is crackling on this winter evening. It’s lovely.
(Jennifer) And sometimes we need help seeing just how not comfortable we are with who we are. We need a foundation of love and acceptance to be able to come into the light. And I have watched Him do that through you, Martha, over and over again. I’m a recipient of that. I’m an absolute recipient of that. And somehow that love moved past all my self-hatred, all my barricades, all the rest of it. It is undaunted and unstoppable, and it goes in, and it does. Somewhere it creates… I don’t know how to describe it. I don’t want to say a cushion, and a foundation seems a little stable for what really happens. But basically I’m held. There’s an intertwining. That love goes in and gets tangled up with all the rest of my mess and begins to sever little lines beyond what I’m conscious of, and somehow shakes the complete imbalance that is being in the dark. We were not meant to be in the dark. There’s no balance there. There’s no life there. It’s not what’s integral and even about us. And the whole thing can come crashing down, and you come in the light, and I feel like that love is the beginning of what becomes a restoration, of what becomes a regaining of balance, of finding your place, not just in yourself but in this world, in relationship with Him. And it really is like fishing. There is a net of love that goes out. He did make fishers of men? Is that what He said? “I will make you fishers of men.” That is literally what it does. I think the net; that’s what I was looking for. The love goes out like a net, and it grabs hold, and it comes around, and it supports, and it holds, and it grafts where it needs to, and it tightens where it needs to, and it cuts off flow to the more gangrenous areas that need to be cut off from. It’s just… And it pulls, it pulls us kicking and screaming, because we don’t know how desperately we need the light. But it’s amazing to me that it trumps everything. It trumped my self-hatred. It trumped my fear of God; not the proper fear of God but the belief that He was horrible, dangerous, terrifying; that He hated me. It trumped all of that, Martha. None of that; that self-hatred was nothing in comparison. And I didn’t welcome it. I did not receive that love with gratitude. Ok? I wasn’t grateful. I didn’t even really understand what was happening to me. But if you had asked me, I would have said, “Well, let me tell you, it’s not easy.” That’s how I would have said it. Honestly. That’s my story. I don’t get to say, “Oh, I came and I’ve fallen in love, and it’s wonderful.” Nope, sorry. It didn’t matter. It did not matter. I was a reluctant… I won’t even call me anything but a wounded minnow trying to get away from the shallows where the sunlight was coming down. It didn’t matter. That net went out, and it didn’t faze you guys. You should not have stayed with me for two and a half years. There should not have been steady love. There should not have been. People, I’m not being modest. I’m telling you the truth. No! And He kept pouring. I don’t know how He did it. It’s miraculous, but I know that self-hatred was nothing. It was just nothing.
(M) Well, that’s true. It was nothing. But, you know, I keep thinking of a scripture in Colossians 1, “He delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the Kingdom of the Son of His love.” He brought us from hate to love. He brought us from darkness to light. And that is huge. We can’t comprehend what that means. We don’t even know what it means that we were in the domain of darkness. Really, it’s not called a kingdom of darkness. The right translation is that it was a domain, a “dominion of darkness into the Kingdom of the Son of His love.” I love that description of the Kingdom. And you know, Jennifer, you can call it John or Martha or Carole, but really God’s love for you came on us so unconditionally. It really didn’t matter. It really didn’t matter who you were. There was such enormous grace and love of God for you. His love for you came through us. His assault on you was His love.
(Jennifer) That is accurate. But I feel like in your message, in the message “Overcoming Self-hatred,” December’s message, one of the things that you had such zeal for was that we understand just how much warfare was involved with self-hatred, and how one of the most brilliant aspects of that warfare is to make us think it’s literally all of us, entirely me. Somehow I completely forget that in fact I’m a vessel who initiates nothing, but instead acts on what gets poured in, and what I allow in, what I open the door to, which voice I listen to, a thousand analogies, all of them. But what strikes me with this and what gives me such hope in hearing this is… But that’s just it. Self-hatred is not this impenetrable, scary, dominating… It really is a house of cards. It really is a house of cards, Martha. I got to tell you. I’ve always viewed it as this thing, and it’s just now hitting me, just now as you’re talking about this and about what it was. And I’m realizing I do have something in common with Paul, the Apostle Paul. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, neither of us were looking to be saved. We thought we had it pretty good. He got knocked off his donkey by a ray of light and was struck blind and all that good stuff, but he wasn’t looking for a Savior. Paul thought he had it figured out. He was doing just fine. And I gotta be honest. I’ve been in church. I’ve seen what they have to offer, and I wasn’t too impressed. No, thank you; off I go. I was not looking. And it did not matter. It did not matter, because at the end of the day what is indomitable, what is impenetrable, what is immovable is not the dominion of darkness. It is not the kingdom of darkness. That is completely penetrable, completely moveable, completely assailable on every level, even when you’re not, you know, when you’re not asking for a fight. I wasn’t out there, you know, pulling a “Braveheart,” and showing my rear to the enemy. I wasn’t trying to insight anger or any of the rest of it. I just wanted to be left alone, and that didn’t matter either. He was completely and totally unconcerned. And I was going to be fished out.
(J) Oh, He was totally committed.
(Jennifer) He was absolutely committed. That was just it. He was committed. He made His choice, and He said, “I’m going to bring you to a place where you’re in your right mind, and then you can see what’s in front of you, and then we’ll see what you say.” And bringing me to my right mind, yeah, it took some time, but at the end of the day, it was not impossible. And so, self-hatred is not this huge, indomitable thing that’s just going to take years and years of, “Oh, I don’t think it’s gonna happen… Boohooooohooo.” I just, I view it as this huge thing, and it’s just not. It’s just not. That’s a lie too.