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with Martha Kilpatrick and hosted by John Enslow
(J) So though I’m praying that the Father would manifest Himself to reveal Himself, I’m not asking Him to do it to prove to anyone, anything. All I want Him to do is to reveal Himself. And if He does that in the stillest, smallest, ‘wee-est’ way, then that’s what I want. If someone comes away from the conference and they see God more than they did when they walked in the door, then that’s wonderful. If it’s done in a demonstrative way, great; if it’s done in a very simple way, that you almost can miss it, great. I don’t care, I just want, I want the vision of God to be clarified by Himself, and real by Himself, and not as a proof.
(M) Hmhmm.
(J) But as an evidence, because we’re silly little ‘blamey’s’ (Laughter)…
(M) Yeah. You know John, what you experienced in New York, without doing, going into any names and details, what you experienced was that the leaders can quench the glory of God. That if the leader wants the glory to come only through them, they will not receive it through another vessel. And it’s like three times in our experience, major, in major meetings, God has brought the glory; it looked like, to provoke people, to provoke the leadership to hate the glory. And I had questioned Him after we went through that and came home, and He gave me a writing by someone that says if the leader wants the glory to come only through themselves, they will miss the glory of God, and they will quench it. It was exactly what we’d experienced. And it was… just came to me from somewhere; I don’t even remember where, in a writing.
(J) Well do you remember what He told me?
(M) Yeah I do.
(J) I mean, I asked the question. I said I don’t understand.
(M) It lifted off of you.
(J) It did. It came straight off of me, and I said God what happened? And He said something very shocking to me. He said, “I gave them the authority of this church. They have the authority to send me away.” And I went, ok well that’s, that’s scary.
(M) Well it’s right there in Ezekiel, when the glory demands holiness. The glory is present… The reason it’s so… it can be so heavy and you get on the floor is the glory is the holiness of God. And oh… That was the shocking thing at the time to hear what God said to you, but it’s, it is right there in the scripture, God withdrew the glory, and He called the prophet Ezekiel to witness it and to understand it; to understand why. But the glory rose, I think to the doorway, rose, and then the glory departed from the temple.
(J) It’s frightening that He gives man that much power; that He gives the authority, and then the choice to allow Him to come or to send Him away. And I think, I don’t want that much power; that’s frightening. And, but that’s what He said to me, He said hey…
(M) Well I do know that the judgment of God, when you offend the glory, it may not come in tomorrow, but the judgment of God falls.
(J) Is it because it’s offensive on the Holy Spirit?
(M) I’m sure. I’m sure. I hadn’t thought of that, but I’m sure that’s true. But it’s the things that have happened that I know about are awesome; the consequences… You can, yes, you can send the glory away; you can reject Christ, you can reject the glory. You have that choice, but my God has taught me He also has a choice of what He does in response to that. And as with Herod, he didn’t say to the people I’m not God. Because he didn’t, and he must have reveled in it, he was struck on the spot and died. And it’s a tremendous… Acts is full of the glory of God being both victorious and deadly. When Stephen was dying he looked and saw the glory of Jesus and God. He saw the glory. He died in the glory. And I believe martyrs can experience that and die in the glory. The glory was that it somehow captured Paul. So God’s glory came out of it in more ways than one, and many unbelievable… In multiplication God’s glory came out of that event. Well, you know God… I want to put this in a way… you were a young man in that church, and I think that they could… They could negate you easily. God makes it, puts it in such a form that if you want to reject the vessel, you can do that. But what was, what was it like when the glory lifted? You were on the floor.
(J) Ah, I would say that it was like…
(M) The pressure lifted?
(J) The pressure was gone.
(M) Hmhmm.
(J) I was like wait a minute. No, no, no, no, no.
(M) Don’t leave me.
(J) I know, I know I was like having a hard breathing, but don’t leave. But I knew it was gone.
(M) Umhmm.
(J) I mean it was, it was (a blowing sound), it just was gone. And ah, the absence of it, you know, when you have something so, so evident, and pressure, and then all of a sudden have it just lift and, and you know… And I know I hadn’t done anything to offend Him, so I was… You know all I was doing was weeping and on my face, so ah… But the authority of the church basically said ‘stop’.
(M) Hmhmm.
(J) And I could no more stop, nor could I have done that.
(M) A-huh. You couldn’t have manufactured it, and you couldn’t have stopped it, either one.
(J) Not at all.
(M) It was…
(J) I wouldn’t want to.
(M) And you know, it’s interesting, John, that in three different occasions when the glory of God came on me, for the sake of a group of people, there was no visible evidence. And in all three cases they didn’t ask God what it was, didn’t ask God how to respond, and didn’t see it really; didn’t see it in the spirit. It’s just a mystery; the glory is a mystery to me. We’re entering the realm of another dimension, another world, the realm of the heavens.
(J) And I’m, I’m wanting it not to be hijacked any further; you know? I know that there’s no… He allows that even. He allows the hijacking. And you know, that’s the mess that we always make. And I was going well, Christ, why? Please Jesus, you know? And uhmm, but He allows that. He allows people to misrepresent Him and He, you know. But I don’t want it to be hijacked anymore.
(M) Well one day.
(J) One day, there’s no doubt; it’s done.
(M) One day. And I think too, I’ve never known such vicious reviling as when the glory has come. And you experienced it in that situation too, afterwards when we got home. But when God answered it, for me and for you, there was no suffering in it really.
(J) No, because it didn’t have anything to do with me.
(M) It did not have anything to do with you or with me. It was God’s choice, and it was rejected, and, and we were made… The reviling is that you are made to have done something wrong. That was the accusation, in one form or another.
(J) Hmm.
(M) But I… You know, it was, it was really a wonderful experience.
(J) I’m glad I experienced it.
(M) Hmhmm.
(J) I’m glad I experienced all of them, you know? I wouldn’t have it any other way. It’s wonderful.
(M) Hmhmm. Makes you wish you could see what’s really going on in the angelic realm and in the spiritual realm when the glory comes. And what is God after? See, we really don’t know. We really don’t have any idea.
(J) And it’s not charismatic, you know? It happens everywhere, you know?
(M) Right, right. It wasn’t in a charismatic arena.
(J) No, no, and really, I mean you know? It wasn’t even accepted where you thought it would be accepted, you know? And so… Oh, may God have His manifest purpose.
(M) Hmhmm. And may we glorify Him in suffering. And may we begin to want His glory out of everything that happens. And lets, lets begin to ask for His glory for the conference, that it be to the glory of God. That it end up being to the glory of God, as far as He wants to take it. And this group of people… I would love to see God’s glory come and manifest in some form.
