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with Martha Kilpatrick and John Enslow
(M) Well, John, I’ve got something really strong in my heart and burning in my spirit. I’ve come to ask you to do a podcast, and a lot of it’s going to be about you.
(M) Are you ready? On this train?
(M) You’ve been talking about… We’ve been on rejection for weeks and you’ve been talking about going to a god who wasn’t the real God. And Carole also said, just so you’ll know I’m coming to the Father of the Lord Jesus Christ. And that’s all kind of been outside my experience. It’s been a little bit something I’ve been just kind of listening to you all about. Just, that’s just not been my experience. And I’ve had a sort of amazement about it. But we had a phone call from someone very dear and trusted. And she had a burden to tell you that your message about the wrong god, creating a god, in that revelation… And I think I said to you in some podcast, John, this is your story that God is writing in your life. But I had no idea of the real impact of it as she did. And she said you have got… God has given you, John, the diagnosis of the problem with the church in the end times. And it’s quite blown me away because her emphasis was how significant what He’s given you is. And that it is the diagnosis of what’s wrong is that so much, so many in Christianity are not going to the true God. You and I have had such vivid experiences of this among a number of people, and very forcefully for a few weeks.
(J) Umhumm. Actually that’s probably why right now I’m, I’m unable to really get this in, because we’ve had an onslaught of people that have really just been so ‘off’.
(M) Yeah. Well I’m going back, I want to just go back to read; I want to start with 1Tim. 4. If I took time to read it in the Amplified it’d be much stronger, but… Paul wrote Timothy, “Now the Spirit expressly says”, expressly, that caught me, “that in the latter times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, through the insincerity of liars”, there, now there it is, “whose consciences are seared, who forbid marriage, and require abstaining from food” and so forth. And then in second Peter, he mentions it; “False prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly”, there’s word, “bring in destructive heresy, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words.” And there’s all kinds of warnings about the end times. And I have believed for sometime that not only will the coming of the Lord be in the days of Noah again, but that the days of Malachi will be repeated, the days of John the Baptist will be repeated. And that the coming of the Lord will cause to arise certain huge immorality, but… And that’s bad. But the real terrible enemy of Jesus was not the sinner, it was the Pharisee.
(M) And so I believe that before His next return, His second coming, there will be an upsurge of the pharisaical religious spirit. And that…you see the… God was standing in front of them, and the servants, supposedly of God, never could hear Him and never could see Him, and killed Him, because they were praying to a god they created, just as you’ve been saying. And I had not connected those two dots.
(M) That is exactly what they did. They took certain regulations as god, rather than having a personal God.
(M) I think Nicodemis did have a personal God. And so he was going… He was investigating… And even at the end of Jesus… when Jesus died, Nicodemis was involved. But the Pharisees, as a general rule, had no relationship with the true God. Jesus said if you knew God, you would know Me.
(M) You’re of the devil. And that same tremendous pharisaical thing is going to be with us. And that is delusion.
(M) Yes. And it’s chosen because of the basis of being a liar. I can’t tell you how dangerous it is to be a liar; to depend on lies to protect yourself, cover your sin, live life, control things. I can’t tell you the danger; it is the danger of hell. And I emphasized when I read that, “liars whose conscience’s are seared”.
(M) And we are talking, John, about things that are very, very real, on these podcasts; our real struggles. But now I want to talk about something desperately real. That we’re entering the time, and are already in it, where there is tremendous delusion. And if you don’t know the Person of God, the real Father of Jesus Christ, as Carole said, that she has come to, if you don’t know Him, you are sunk. You have to be in a relationship with a Person, and you have to be in the relationship with the Real One who is other than you. Not one you make up because of what you believe and don’t believe. Ok, I’m going to give you an illustration of it, and then I’m going to try to tell some experiences we’ve had without revealing too much. It’s not going to be real easy but… In Malachi… It’s the last book of the Old Testament, before the coming of Jesus. The four hundred years of silence lying between. But Malachi is an end-time book. It was the end of times, the prophetic times before Jesus came.
(M) And I believe that same delusion is going to be here. Malachi is the exposure of delusion. Let me read you what E. Stanley Jones said in his book “The Divine Yes”. And he said this some years ago, but boy does it apply now. “When we will not take from the hand of grace, we will have to take from the hand of judgment. This is the hour of judgment, where every wrong is being exposed, and every heart that is trying to uphold that wrong is in trouble with itself and the world.” And that’s what you and I are seeing. “Everything is being exposed. We are discovering the Kingdom of God everywhere. The handwriting is the same everywhere.” And what he means is the coming of the Kingdom of God in any place is exposure. And it’s the exposure… It’s Light; the Kingdom of Heaven is Light. And as it comes, it does expose. And in Malachi, it’s the book of spiritual delusion, and obsession. God says to Israel through Malachi, “I have loved you, but you say, ‘how have You loved us’?” And the first premise is, of delusion is, You have not loved me, God. That brings you into a delusion, a terrible basic delusion, because God does. And it’s a… it’s an attitude of ungratefulness, ingratitude. It’s an attitude of basic core unbelief. Israel didn’t believe that God loved them. And then they said… because they gave God an answer, what God did was state the answer they would give Him if they were honest. “We have been beaten down and we will return and build up the ruins. But thus says the Lord God, they may build but I will tare down.” You see, God had torn down something to return them to Him, but they didn’t return. So they started building again, and God said, I will tare that down again. That’s why they felt unloved by God. The great test is in destruction. (Martha laughs) In collapse do you still believe God, God is love. But if you don’t believe it you will enter a delusion. And then he says, “You’ve defiled My Name and My honor. And they said where have we defiled Your Name?” And He said “you brought defiled food to My altar”. See, God will not accept any offering but the perfection of Jesus. The perfect sacrifice without blemish was simply a picture, that God requires perfection. We cannot give it.
(J) Hmhumm, hmhumm.
(M) But we can offer Christ. I come to You Father in the Name of Your Son Jesus; that is the offering. But they said we haven’t, we haven’t done that. And then they come to God to entreat Him, but they have mistreated Him, and they believe they have served Him. That’s the delusion and deception. And he says, “Incense is offered in My Name, and a grain offering, but you are profaning My Name.” Imagine that, as they make offerings to God, they’re actually profaning Him. “And you say, ‘my, how tiresome it is’, says the Lord. And you bring what was taken by robbery, what is lame or sick, so you bring the offering, should I receive that from your hand?” And he says, “You do not listen, you do not take it to heart to give honor to My Name.” And that’s what I’m going to show you. The issue is listening to someone ‘other’ than you, God ‘other’ than you, or, or as in Malachi’s case, the prophet who knows the ‘Other’. It’s the failure to listen. When they didn’t listen, they began to develop their own ideas, and their own beliefs. And then, then God goes on to say a number of things about this delusion. You’ve robbed Me. And they say ‘how have we robbed You’? They can’t conceive of doing anything wrong. It’s taking my ‘wrongness’ and saying it is right. And you and I are seeing that.
(J) All around us.
(M) All around us. It is so overwhelming. And it is really rather frightening. Ok, Jesus met it. I’m going to read from John 8:47. Well, actually, the whole chapter of John 8 is Jesus has gone to the temple to sit down and teach. Well, their… The Jewish way of teaching could become a debate, a conversation. Someone sits down to present something and then you ask him questions. It was much more interactive than our concept of church today. So this is what was happening. He was in a synagogue I think. And so Jesus said, “The Jews said Abraham is our Father,” and Jesus said in verse 42, “If God were your Father, you would love Me and respect Me, and welcome Me, for I proceeded from God, His very presence. I did not come on My own authority. Why do you misunderstand Me?” You see, that’s part of delusion. There are places where I will say things that are very clear, and the person in delusion cannot ‘get it’. It’s like recently God said to me, this one believes ‘the Liar’ because he is a liar. The liar believes the lie. You cannot afford to indulge in lies in these days, because you will not know that someone is a liar.
(M) Ok. “It is because you are unable to hear what I am saying. You cannot bear to listen to My message, your ears are shut.” Here’s why a person cannot listen. “You are of your father the devil and it is your will” (and one translation says: your desire) “to practice the lusts and gratify the desires which are characteristic of your father the devil. He was a murderer from the beginning and does not stand in the truth because there’s not truth in him. When he speaks a falsehood he speaks what is natural to him, for he is a liar himself, and the father of lies.” But then he says, verse 47, “Whoever is of God listens to God. Those who belong to God hear the words of God. This is the reason you do not listen to those words or to Me, because you do not belong to God and are not of God.” And they go on to debate Him. But the point I want to make is that those who belong to God hear the words of God. And those people who do not hear have a basic reason that they don’t, that is delusion.