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A Heart for the Super Spiritual
May 01, 2016
With Martha Kilpatrick and hosted by John Enslow
Special Guest: Jennifer Wentzel and Carole Nelson
This is the continuation of a series of Podcasts started in Episode #490.
(Jennifer) And I need to say right here, because these podcasts are real and a little bit unfiltered. My whole life has been, when I encounter people, there’s not really too much wishy-washy. In the same way that I pretty much either like you or I don’t like you, I have been either liked or extraordinarily disliked. That has been, so I don’t know if I call that out of people or if that’s just that’s always it is. But I speak very dramatically, and I use very dramatic and uncompromising and what could be hurtful words. And Carole, when you said that, do you know what my response was when you first said, “that was me?” I had to think
about it for a second and say, “Oh, yeah,” because here’s the other part of it. That might be your story and where you came from, but I’ve never met that Carole. I’ve only, ever met the Carole that was delivered entirely of that, as I said, repugnant spirit. So, for me, it didn’t even occur to me to temper my language, because I was in the presence of someone who once came there. And when you spoke I thought, “Well, now I’ve put my foot in it again.” But it’s because you are so far removed. It is that whole east from west. In my mind there is only you. There is only Carole, and she is beautiful. She loves the truth, and she is warm, and she sees people and she hears people, and she has a welcome for them in reality, where they are, who they are, as they are. And that is nothing, that is like oil and water with the super spiritual. It’s not possible. Ok? The super spiritual do not wash feet. They do not welcome someone in and feed them. They don’t look at the basics, Carole. So, you say this and you say that’s your story and I forgot, because I don’t know her. I’ve never known her. By the time I met you, you are glorious you. You are Jesus Christ living in Carole. You are a facet of Him. So, I’m sorry. I’m sorry that I used those words, but at the same time, I’m not, because I don’t know her. So, I wasn’t even talking about you. It might be your story, but it is not you.
(Martha) I’m so stoked because I wanted to say something like that, and I didn’t have any words. All I can say is, “Oh, Carole, I forgot.” I had the same thing, and I was with you in it for 40 years. But I forget, because it’s not.
(Carole) But my story gives me a heart for people who are still there, and I know that I can’t have pity for them, but I do have a heart, because they are trapped. They’re trapped by their own doings, their own choices. But are we not all trapped by our own doings and our own choices until Christ comes in and blows up those, those walls and those barriers? And I have a heart for people who are in that place, because I have been there, and it’s a terrible… It’s not only a place of irresponsibility. I tell you the truth, it’s a terrifying place. Yes, it’s a terrifying place. It’s a hysterical place. You’ve seen me in that place. It’s a hysterical, terrifying place of trying so hard to get the approval of God and get the approval of man. If you have the approval of man, then somehow you might have the approval of God. But it’s very, very hard to have that broken. But when God’s determined, He’s determined, and He can back one in a corner and not give you a way out, even though you have every choice to leave. But He knows how to do it. He knows your makeup from beginning to end, and if you so much as make one little decision that says, “Ok, God, I want the truth,” He hears you whether you mean it or not. And He answers. And He answers. So, we can make the choice. We can do that, and He responds.
(J) Well, connecting to the need for love, I think one of the things that is connected with that deep need for the approval and the love is the anger that you don’t have it. And then from that anger, we buy into the delusion with such great pride. And I think that that delusion is connected to pride. I think that’s the only way that he can get us, Satan can get us to suck it down like a baby bird, you know, open our mouth and have it shoved in. The only way we’ll, you know, take the full load of the delusion is that it’s connected to a pride that is connected to an anger that we’re not getting what we should have. Does that make sense?
(All) Yes, absolutely.
(J) And then here’s another end of it. It’s the, the pride is such violence. And..
(Martha) I’m so glad you touched on this, John, because, and Carole, you read the scripture that I failed to bring, so it’s all being orchestrated by the Lord. But that element of violence is behind a mask and a pretence of niceness and sweetness, but it is a mask for such hate and violence. So, I’m glad you brought that up. It’s the truth. That’s the reality.
(J) That’s why they can say they love you, and you’re feeling like your soul is being scraped, because there’s a violence in that delusion. And there’s a rage too, isn’t there? There’s a rage. I think that that’s, the hysterics is a rage. It’s just, the whole thing from start to finish is so Satan inspired and Satan maintained. It’s got a demonic end to it that keeps you in this spiral that you’re, you know, you’ve got the need, the anger, the pride, the acceptance of the delusion, the violence, the, you know, and then it keeps you round and round and round and round back to the need, back to the… It’s just a vicious spiral, and I think that that’s the hysterics, because there’s got to be an end of it somewhere in there that you know. There’s got to be… The Spirit would not be the Spirit if the Spirit didn’t prick every single time you hit that. You can dull the Voice by not listening anymore, but there’s got to be that prick somewhere in there that says, “Um, you’re stuck in delusion here. This is sewage.” You know, you may pass it over and get into the pride and patch it up and…
(Carole) You patch it up in place of facade, of pretence over it.
(J) So, like you stucco it up and may have a hole piercing it, but you stucco it up.
(Carole) But you know. There is a place where you know. From time to time, you can go for period of time, but you know. There is a place that you know things, if nothing else, are way off. They are not right.
(J) And that’s the, that’s the big thing. The Spirit has to be the Spirit in that whole process to prick you. Or if He doesn’t prick you, He’s not being much of a Comforter, not being much of a Counselor, not being much of a Helper, which is what He is. And if He doesn’t tell you when you’re in delusion… You can tell Him to shut up, and He’ll shut up. But you’re constantly being pricked. You can’t roll over nails and not be pricked. And so, but the one aspect of it with the practicality, that God uses the practicality to bring you out of super spiritual ity delusion… I was thinking about the chickens and Beauty and our podcast about that. We really, really, really went into such a practicality and dealing, and He… That’s our life here is practicality, and I don’t know if you want to share any of that practicality, how He brought you to a real place of practicality.
(Martha) Years ago I worked with someone and worked and worked and worked with him, and finally I said, “Go, work.” I knew instinctively, I didn’t understand it then as much as I do now, but I knew that he just had to go work at what needs to be done. And it took him some time to do that, but he did.
(J) And now it’s a glorious, there’s a glorious happening because of the practicality.
(Martha) It’s responsibility. She hit it.
(J) Responsibility. Yeah.
(Carole) Well, yeah. In answer to even my small choice or whatever, even before I had some freedom, God just ordains, and He sets up circumstances, and He worked it out so that I had to go to work. I had to. So, Martha’s son in law, Sam, needed some help at the Dessertery, and he called me and said, “Would you like to work?” And I said, “Ok.” So, for the next four years, I mean, I worked the hardest physical work of my whole life. It didn’t take a lot of brain power. I’m serious. What I did as a cook… I was a cook and a bottle washer. I mean, I washed dishes and cooked and baked fifteen cakes. That may be an exaggeration, but I’m telling you I think there were days when I baked fifteen cakes and seven pies, you know, in a day. I’ve never done anything like that, and I would go to work in the dark and come home in the dark. I was so dead tired, and Sam would say to me, “Carole, you’ve got to take a break during the day.” I said, “Sam, no, no, no, you don’t want me to take a break during the day, because if I sit down, I’m not getting back up.” Anyway, God is brilliant, and He knew what He had to do to bring me to a place of responsibility and a place of being a servant. He did that. He called me to it, and He did that.
(Martha) And Carole is a famous, wonderful cook, and Sam knows that she was just a gift. They considered it a gift, because she’s such a good cook.
“if you so much as make one little decision that says, “Ok, God, I want the truth,” He hears you whether you mean it or not. And He answers.”
That is such good news, Carole! That is Love. He may not answer how or as quickly we would like, as Martha said we need to work at what needs to be done (still in process, but not with my own power for a change), but He knows us…what it will take and because of who HE is and what HE thinks about me, I can relax (not apathy or passivity, just lean).
There is a huge violence in our pride… but thanks’s God there is a holy violence in the Lord’s hand! Our violence is filled of hate, but His violence is filled of love. He is violent because He loves us. We are violent because we hate Him.
What king would go to war against another king without first sitting down with his counselors to discuss whether his army of 10,000 could defeat the 20,000 soldiers marching against him? And if he can’t, he will send a delegation to discuss terms of peace while the enemy is still far away. So you cannot become my disciple without giving up everything you own.
What we inwardly own is due to pride, because “everything belongs to the Lord”.
There is a secret verse in the Bible that talks of His violence. When I discovered it, I inmediately got in love with Him in it. I cannot help but crying when I read it, because it talks of MY violence against Him… and of His blessed violence against me:
And he went up and down among the lions; he became a young lion, and he learned to catch the prey; he devoured men. And he knew their palaces, and laid waste their cities; and the land was desolate, and the fulness thereof, because of the noise of his roaring. Then the nations set against him on every side from the provinces; and they spread their net over him; he was taken in their pit. And they put him in a cage with hooks, and brought him to the king of Babylon; they brought him into strongholds, that his voice should no more be heard upon the mountains of Israel.
That young lion is Christ, and the king of Babylon is Rome… his own people brings the Lamb into a cage with hooks (up to this day)… “so that His voice should no more be heard upon the mountains of Israel”.
Checked and checked again by these verses in my heart…
Love to the Body