with Martha Kilpatrick and John Enslow
(M) John I asked you to … Let’s do a podcast this morning. I want to remind all the listeners that this is entirely spontaneous. And it’s not planned; although we know what we’re going to talk about, we never know where we’re going. Last podcast when I talked about trying to describe delusion, I felt like I stumbled around. If anybody ‘got it’, I’m just real amazed because I couldn’t really tell the stories that illustrate it. But today I think I’ve got an answer to something. When you and Carole talked about going to the god who was not God, that just completely bewildered me. And I accepted it, and I wanted you all to tell it, but I had no real frame of reference for that.
(J) And I’m glad for you, (John and Martha laugh) real grateful.
(M) And that’s no credit to me, I really can’t explain why, but I didn’t have any experience that I could relate to that, I just wanted it told.
(J) Maybe it was to pull the, the others like us, out of the muck.
(M) But this morning I think the Lord has really shown me because you know, John, from the beginning of the time that I began to share my faith, God has put me with some of the most abused grown-up children. And He, through my own inner-healing that happened early, early on, He launched me into an inner-healing ministry. And way back years ago people would come from all over, really all over the United States. But there came a time when I sort of moved away from inner healing, and I’ve puzzled over that. But He’s always sent me to abused children. And I had… I had a difficult childhood in many ways.
(J) Well Joan said this morning, she said, “Which one of us has not been abused?”
(M) Right. It’s natural to the human race.
(J) It’s… We’re in a fallen world, we are… That’s the way it is.
(M) And as I was praying about two people who are particularly difficult, that I’ve been with for years, struggling to bring them into, oh the Kingdom, I’ll say. On these particular two, the judgment of God has fallen. And I mentioned that in the last podcast. But this morning…The Lord had told me something about these two people sometime back. He said these two people are traumatized more than you understand Martha. And I thought He meant that that deserved extra sympathy, extra grace. But I didn’t stop and ask Him what He meant, and what that translated into in His wisdom. I just thought I understood. Oh well, this takes more sympathy. And… But this morning God showed me that…He’s taught me for a long time that no one is a victim. And He’s taught me for a long time that we make the choice, even in the womb, of how we respond. And Matthew fifteen He said…He was answering the Pharisees. And the first thing He deals with them about is “Honor your Father and Mother”. “The one who speaks evil of Father or Mother must be put to death.” And He said “These people honor Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me, they worship Me in vain.’ And you see it begins with that father and mother. And then Jesus calls the Pharisees hypocrites and quoted Isaiah, “Their heart is far from Me, they worship Me in vain”, that’s very key, “teaching as doctrines the commands of men”. And He called the crowd, and this was addressed to the crowd. “Listen and understand, it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a man, but what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man”, or a person. And the disciples said, “You offended the Pharisees with this statement”. And He said, “Every plant that My heavenly Father didn’t plant will be uprooted. Leave them alone, they’re blind guides. If the blind guide the blind, both will fall into the pit.” Ok, Peter said, “Explain this, and Jesus said, do you still not understand? Don’t you realize that whatever goes into the mouth passes into the stomach and is eliminated. But what comes out of the mouth comes from the heart, and this defiles a person. For from the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, sexual immoralities, thefts, false testimonies, blasphemies. These are the things that defile a man; but eating with unwashed hands does not defile a man.” It’s very significant. And what… It took me many years to understand what it meant. He was really using the body to illustrate that what happens to you is not your problem. Your problem is the response that comes out of your own heart that is your problem. We are never, ever, ‘a victim’. And to deal with inner healing as if you are a victim and that’s all, is to side with bitterness against God. And I think instinctively that’s the reason I’ve really left that ministry and went to decision and responsibility. It was a transition of the Spirit that I really never understood until years later. But I was in inner healing before there was a title, before there was a name. I called it healing of the soul because I’d never heard it, or read anything about it. And the ministry I had was really of the Spirit because I couldn’t do anything else. Ok, now, the point of this is that we’re completely responsible. (Martha laughs) And that’s the hardest thing for humanity to come to because we were… In the garden we… In Adam and Eve, we blamed God, Satan and the woman.
(M) We blamed the Devil, we blamed God, and we blamed the person. So to come to complete responsibility is to come to health and forgiveness and healing. Ok. But if you continue to believe that someone else defiled you… And that’s what He’s really saying about the Pharisees, that their worship was in vain. The Pharisees were deluded. And what He was really saying is, you withhold from your father and mother the honor that you should have given them. And basically that is at the root of delusion. It’s usually…I don’t know of any other cause than bitterness with parents. It’s not the parents you see; it’s superiority to parents. And it makes you evil; it makes you deluded; and it makes you religious in a way that God rejects utterly. And Jesus was offending them and bombarding them, and He continued to bombard them. Because what I’m… What I understand, because God has called me to the Pharisees to bring them into the Kingdom, and some of them into basic salvation, being born-again from above. Ok you’re…. What is your…?
(J) He was offending them. But wasn’t He offending them from the beginning? Didn’t He offend them when they were children?
(M) Well come on, come on here.
(J) I mean is that not what He was literally going after? He was offensive to the Pharisee, offensive over and over. Beloved Nicodemis, His comments to him were so offensive.
(J) Absolutely, insulting. And ah, but I’m wondering if when we’re children if He isn’t trying to offend us with what we think is abuse, or what we deem as abuse, or what is legitimate abuse. Is He not trying to offend?
(M) I think, John, He’s trying to evoke a choice. And the very essence of life offends our pride. Because we are born with a nature that believes it is…it ‘deserves’ and has the right to decide what’s right or wrong. We are born under the tree of right and wrong. And when you view things in that category, which we do naturally, we are going to consider that they are wrong and I’m right, and they’re bad and I’m good. But it constitutes the most basic choice in a child. And they know now, that even from the womb, the basic ability of humanity, even without mental understanding or language or anything, is choice. And the studies of criminality, in the studies of the criminal mind now, they know that it is not environment, but it is choice that makes one go in that direction. And I think what I want, what I want to bring forth this morning is that issue that there are two dominions, and man is not one of them. The choice is between two gods. And you see Jesus confrontation with the Pharisees was that they were of the devil. They had the nature of the devil; they wanted to do the works of the devil. They were utterly convinced in their delusion and blindness that they were serving God, and He attacked them with ‘these people worship Me in vain’. He was attacking their worship as being unacceptable to God and futile. They worship Me in vain, teaching doctrines, the commands of man. Their heart is far from Me. I’m trying to show you how Jesus attacked the religious delusion that believes it is going to God when it’s going to Satan. And it comes from, not being tricked by Satan. It doesn’t come from pain. It doesn’t come from abuse. It comes from choice of response. And that choice of response rejects God. We went one time in rejection, but what we really, what we’re really on now is the hearts rejection of God in the rejection of parents; and the evil it takes you to is going to a god who is not the Father of Jesus Christ. Now, for some reason, I don’t know why, I did not choose to go there. I don’t know. I never really… I think it was more weakness than it was anything else in me, but I just endured and accepted it. It never occurred to me to… I knew how to disobey, but… and I knew how to rebel, but I didn’t…I didn’t choose to reject my father and mother. I think I would have… I think I chose to reject me. I can’t explain it, I don’t know why, but that whole realm of going to Satan as your god, has been foreign to me. Not that I’m better, I don’t know what it was. Just, the bottom line is just choice. But He has thrust me into a long term relationship with the Pharisees. And some have come through and some have not come through. Some have come in, and some have gone. And the confrontation of Jesus against them was to bring them out to destroy their delusion.
(J) I just see that it didn’t start as an older person…
(J) An adult. I see that He was purposing to offend and evoke a choice from a child.
(M) Hmmm. Of course.
(J) And draw, and draw out of us our choice, so that it was evident to us so that we could make a choice. I mean… Well, that’s what He did with me. I can, now that I’m looking at it, I can see that He’s… He went into my life and orchestrated events and circumstances to evoke my choice, and I chose incorrectly. But that was the… I believe it was the ‘saving’ of me. I believe that He went in there to use these things that I used to turn against Him so that I would come to Him.
(M) Oh wow. That’s amazing.
(J) I think He does it to all of us.
(J) But He, He offends us as children, evoking a choice out of us, drawing out of us our propensities to resist Him. And then when we don’t… When it doesn’t turn out the way we think it should, then we start looking and saying maybe, maybe this isn’t the right way, or we just go further and deeper into it. I don’t, you know… And who knows what it is that makes that choice, but…
(M) Well, there was one element that you had in your life, John, that I believe that God was able to use the kindness of God to bring you through. And that was a basic integrity of just telling the truth. And that is not present in every person who’s been abused and who’s chosen the wrong god. If they go deeply enough into the lie, as these Pharisees were in, they can become so deluded that they’re offended by God Himself standing before them.
(J) “Blessed is he that is not offended in Me.” Well I can see… I see the kindness of God, the goodness of God, the wonderful mercy of God. But this morning I’m seeing how the God, Shammah, came in with a sword and was hacking at me, hacking at my pride, evoking out of me responses that really I have… Because of those responses, and because of how I responded to those circumstances and situations, I am having to work out…
(M) What you’re doing is working out of the thinking and the choice. Is that right?
(J) I am… Yes. I am struggling out of that, pulling teeth to get out of that.
(M) Hmhum. You’re doing the work.
Living with anticipation of how Christ is to reveal Himself in the coming days. Martha has an urgent message of hope and preparation for times of trouble and crisis. These times and the times that are coming are to be trying, but the Lord has an intention and a joy in revealing His holy purpose. We wish you to invite you to “The Coming One”, our upcoming conference, held in Atlanta, Georgia, May 29th through the 31st.