Ministers Of Reconciliation
With Martha Kilpatrick and hosted by John Enslow
(M) One has discernment in one way, and one has wisdom in another way, but it’s by the Spirit. You have to have, you have to come with no agenda, with no opinion, and just make it the only criteria, the only calling is to walk in the Spirit, be led; you are sons of God when you are led of the Spirit.
(J) But it’s…to go back to the original thought, because of my dogma’s, because of my rigidity, I would say, because this was said today, this is forever. And it hurt me when it wouldn’t. I would be like, wait a minute, you just said, you got my heart over here to be on board with this, and now my heart’s there and now you’re changing. And it’s just, it’s Lordship.
(M) Who knows all; He knows all.
(J) He is exercising His Lordship in my daily heart responses and experience so that I say, ok, and then I don’t have it gripped. I don’t have a tight fist on it. You said this yesterday. I’m holding onto this about this person. Well, wait a minute, that’s another person that is His, that’s created by Him, and then, so if I keep that hand open, He’s able to move. And probably, there’s probably a whole demonic realm to it when I do hold someone there. I could prevent them from coming any further because I’m holding them to what God said yesterday, but if I’ll open my hand it gives them the open door to hear the Spirit possibly and come forward.
(M) You know Paul said we are ministers of reconciliation. I’ve got to check on it, but I believe that Paul separated from Mark and later was reconciled with him? I’m not sure, that’s vague in my memory. But the point is the passion of the Spirit is to bring the children back to the Father. The passion of the Father is to have someone purified by the blood so that they can be in fellowship with Him. But the reason God sent His Son was for reconciliation. But that reconciliation is on God’s terms only. And so…
(J) I hope that nobody is even remotely using “The Separator” book as a dogmatic bat to beat someone up with.
(M) I knew that was the risk, John. But everything, everything can be understood to suit my prejudice.
(M) And I just have to… When I wrote it I knew that was a possibility, and I just had to say… It’s so important on the other side of it, because there are people who won’t come through without such a severe stance against their anti-Christ spirit. And ah…
(J) The book is just so amazing, and it’s just I’ve seen the work of doing it and having that lived out in my life, and I’ve seen the fruit of it. And, you know, you’re not going to prevent somebody from using anything that you say as a baseball bat. But because I’m with you and I’m watching you walk it out, I can see that it’s, it is so fluid; it is so fluid.
(M) Hmhmm. People used to ask us you know, when do you meet? And we would say all the time. Because this week I have family, Carole had family, we didn’t have a meeting. And ah, the Holy Spirit is fluid. It’s fine to have a regular meeting; I would love to do that. And we do have regular meetings. We have it set, but it can change. And in general everyone said there’ll be no meeting Tuesday morning, but stay on board for Friday. And that’s really kind of how we move. It’s hard to explain it, and it’s impossible to defend it.
(M) It’s just our life as He has set it up. And…
(J) I wonder if that’s not part of the training of the flexibility, that He’s trained me to be open handed and flexible.
(J) You know, when I’ve traveled with you, when I’ve been in the office and have a week to get ready to go to the next place out of this country and everything like that, I have learned flexibility. You’ve trained me in the Spirit of flexibility. You have just allowed… I don’t, I can’t hem Him in and say this is what He’s going to do in every situation, because He’ll be totally different every single time. And if I, really, when I hem Him in, He stomps it and hurts my feelings. I get wounded, because I’m like wait a minute, this is, I’m out here, this is where I’ve put my heart.
(M)Ah, you know one of my favorite things in the Thompson chain Bible is there’s a map of Jesus’ travels. And it’s completely chaotic by our sense of travel. He goes, it’s a zigzag. He goes from here to there and up and down and back and forth. And I look at that many times and I have understood, Lord, that is how You move. You move, and if you don’t, if you aren’t really surrendered, you’ll miss Samaria, you’ll miss Jericho, and ah, but that’s how Jesus walked. Well, and John, you had an episode yourself with this.
(J) Tell me. (Martha laughs.)
(M) Well, many years ago we came to a crisis. And I don’t even remember what it was, but there was a very serious word from the Lord to me, and about you. I didn’t know any, and didn’t know why. And so I brought it to you and we were working on it, and it was very serious. And you went to your house, and I went back to mine. And I spent all night with the Lord. And you were up all night because it was so serious. About three in the morning the Lord said, “Ok, it’s solved.” And then you came to the door about seven or eight, and ah, you had seen the issue and you had repented. And you had satisfied God. And He told me the moment it happened. And so before you came we were reconciled. But that was, that was one thing I think that showed you that like you say, you can be on the chopping block Tuesday and Wednesday morning back worshipping. It’s just a matter of God being satisfied and God being allowed to be Ruler of His Church.
(J) And of His people.
(M) And of His people, yeah.
(J) Who is God? Who is Lord? And that’s Who you’re bowing to in this free flow, fluid life. It’s not you know…
(M) I like your word the breeze. Sometimes it’s so gentle that it is simply a whiff. And ah… I’m glad you’re going with this, because we’ve been talking about chastening and separation, which is probably kind of rare today, but very big in Act’s. It’s not that I make a model of Act’s. I haven’t, I really haven’t committed to study the book of Act’s; I have asked for it.
(J) The book of Act’s, I would say, would be active, forward moving Lordship with the Spirit guiding and directing all the actions. And that’s, that any church, any Body, any entity that is committed to His Spirit in that way, will experience the miracles, because that’s Who God is. They will experience the life of the Spirit and the life of wonder.
(M) And courage. If anything, if nothing else, the Holy Spirit will take you more and more into His dominion by situations in which you have to choose whether to be obedient or to be disloyal.
(J) Well, think about the ‘yo-yo’ that the disciples had to go through. They, they were walking with this, this wonderful Man for three years, and then all of a sudden He’s telling them, I’m leaving, I’m leaving, I’m leaving. I’m going to, you know, be crucified, I’m going to die, and then I’ll come back. And none of them believed Him. That’d never been seen before. And so He dies, and they think ok it’s over, let’s go fishing, it’s all done. And then, then a little bit later, after He’s risen from the dead He, boom, He pops in and He says you know I told you I was going to do this. Surprise! And expressed His awesome Lordship and talked about the Spirit and then left, and then here comes the Spirit. I mean, they were being ‘yo-yoed’. You’re here for three years, your gone, your dead, you’re here again, your gone, and, and…Talk about if they would not be willing to have the fluid movement of the Spirit at that point… And I’m sure their feelings were hurt. They tried to hem Him in, and then stomp-stomp.
(J) He just will walk over those things.
(M) The next booklet I want to write if the Spirit will let me write, will be about the Holy Spirit. It’s from “The Spirit And The Wind” series that I did years ago. And I’m just before the Lord saying, “Tell me what it is I know about the Spirit.” And this morning He’s helping me, because the essence of my knowledge of the Spirit is this issue of the wind; it’s the mystery. That means He is in mystery and all we can do is respond to the wind. It comes as a whisper; it comes as the softest breeze. It comes where you see it moving things, like I right now I’m looking out my window and the wind is moving a red tree and a lime colored tree, shimmering back and forth in the wind. To me that is Who He, that’s the essence of Him to me; that He, if He is in charge, He’s ever moving, but you look for one way and He comes another.
(J) Well, the storm the other night literally laid down all the corn in our neighbor’s field. It’s all down on the ground. He knows that he’s going to have to bundle it up, make it a something sweet to look at during the harvest time and fall, and have to replant it.
(M) So, the Wind is destructive as well.
(M) It’s not possible to know the ways of the Wind. It’s possible to know a lot about the ways of God. We’ll talk about that another time. But the ways of God are very evident. You walk with Him, you learn His ways; the way is the cross and reality. But the ways of the Spirit, you can never box Him in. You can’t God either, but the Holy Spirit especially because He is the Agent moving in this earth. He is the representative of God. He brings Christ here again to this earth in us, and through us and for us. And He is just a mystery. If you don’t let Him have control, you will never know the Wind. He has to have control. The challenge of an entire lifetime is the giving of control over to the Holy Spirit. It’s not giving up control. No, it’s not giving up control. It’s giving over control to that part of the Trinity, the Spirit; giving control to God the Father and Christ as Lord, and the Holy Spirit as the Wind. Otherwise the Wind blows and you don’t even feel it. You’re insensitive. Also John, it implies that not only is God a Voice, but He is an impression. He comes… The Wind is something you feel. You can’t grasp it. You sense it. You’re aware of it, and what happened to you this morning is you began to feel something strongly. It was the Wind. And I could say, you’re on it, you’re on it. But this is the Spirit, it’s not John’s feelings. Because I bear witness to what God is saying to you and telling you to do; I’m telling you do it.