Podcast: Download (9.2MB)
Subscribe: RSS
Podcast (podcast-mp3): Download (6.4MB)
Subscribe: RSS
The Mystery of the Great Exchange
Episode #760
6/27/2021
With Martha Kilpatrick and hosted by John Enslow
This the continuation of a series of podcasts started in Episode #759
The mystery of the Great Exchange is found in Christ in whom are hidden all treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
Martha:
OK, Then Paul said,
In Him you’ve been made complete.
Well, I could probably wrap my mind around that but I would be wrong because it doesn’t mean what it seems to mean.
And in Him you have been made complete [achieving spiritual stature through Christ]. He’s the head of everything. Christ has made you alive together.
What he’s actually saying, John…Here he goes in chapter 4 of Colossians.
Pray for us, too, that God will open a door [of opportunity] to us for the word, to proclaim the mystery of Christ, for which I have been imprisoned; that I may make it clear [and speak boldly and unfold the mystery] in the way I should.
He’s still on the mystery. Goes to prison for knowing the mystery and he’s still after explaining it.
This is the mystery:
I am crucified with Christ and I no longer live. The life I now live I live by the faith of the Son of God who loved me and gave Himself for me.
What it means and what your book means, John, is that Christ didn’t come down to walk with me beside me. He didn’t even come down to walk in front of me and pull me along like sheep. Christ came to enter by very body through the baptism of the Holy Spirit and the re-birth experience so that my Lord Jesus is within this body. And that is the mystery. It’s called the mystery and this is interesting because the antichrist, the test of the antichrist is whether Christ came in the flesh. And if you don’t believe that or if there is an opposition, the antichrist is against Christ being born as a human being. And that’s how you can detect. And I’ve known people that I suddenly realized never do they mention Christ indwelling.
John:
Right, right.
Martha:
It’s called Christ incarnate. That’s the big word for it. It means Christ came into this world in a human body and He lived as a human with God in dwelling.
John:
Right.
Martha:
That’s a pattern of the life that we are to live that when we’re born again, we receive the very nature and character and meaning of Jesus within our personal body. And Christ comes. He wants Christ to indwell the church by having all the church people indwelt with Christ.
John:
He wants to be incarnate in us.
Martha:
Yes.
John:
So, it was a one time, “Hey, let Me show you where we’re going. Now I want to do that in every single person.”
Martha:
Yes, exactly. Perfectly, beautifully said.
Jesus came…Everything He heard, everything He said was from the Father’s voice. Everything He did was from the Father’s instigation. He did what He saw the Father do. And He said to the Pharisees, “You believe in Me. You don’t even believe because of the miracle.”
Jesus came and lived in the body of an infant. I assume that’s when He entered. I don’t know. Perhaps when He was baptized by John the Baptist. The Holy Spirit rested on Him in the form of a dove. But this is the message we must proclaim and we have to, he says,
Pray that I will be able to transcribe it to other people so that the mystery which is Christ are revealed to the Gentiles. God has given to me to make the mystery hidden for ages and generations now revealed to His saints Christ in you the hope of glory. For this I toil.
Then he says,
God mystery is Christ in whom are hidden all treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
So, where are His treasures now? In you, John. Because Christ is in you you have His knowledge, you have access to His wisdom, you have access to His very life. Even though it says, “Your life is hidden with Christ in God” actually He is both there and here in some mysterious way. Christ is your life and when your life appears, you’ll look like Him and be like Him.
John:
See, I think a lot of people think that the exchanged life is about salvation. And it’s really not. Because if you read it, if you read all that you are saying right now as salvation then you say, “Oh, yeah, well, Christ will do it” meaning my saved life now does it.”
Martha:
Or else I do it with Jesus.
John:
Yeah, it’s a imitation thing.
Martha:
With the help of Jesus.
John:
Yeah. There’s a big distinction between your salvation and your actually living out the exchange life.
Martha:
Right.
And that’s what I finally saw thanks to Ian Thomas. I finally got the revelation. It’s not so easy to live out. It’s not so easy to understand all the implications of that and how you can consistently let Him live instead of you.
So, here in I Timothy Paul is charging the elders of the first century church according to the men.
They must hold the mystery of the faith with a clear conscious.
In order to be an elder you had to know the mystery of the faith which is Christ in you.
Ok, the mystery of godliness. This is Paul, again, writing to Timothy:
Great indeed we confess is the mystery of godliness.
So, what is that mystery? It follows. That scripture is talking about Jesus.
Jesus was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angles, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.
Christ Himself being witness through bodies of believers. Born again Believers, is the mystery of godliness.
He is my godliness. I am not.
John:
Than You, Jesus!
Martha:
He is my source of wisdom. I am not. It’s in relationship that you are constantly pointing to, John. God bless you. You can’t be more intimate than two people in one body.
John:
Right, exactly, right!
Martha:
That is an intimacy that you live with 24/7. And surrendering to His life in my body is a matter of surrender and of faith and of growing.
So, Ian Thomas came back to my church and he asked if you had any questions and come up and ask me. And I went up and stood on the platform with him and I said, “I got it!” He said, “You got Him!” And he was right. I was thinking I got the revelation. He said, “No, you got Him.” And I said, “How do you live it out? I go and let Him live my life and then I do it myself.” And he said, “You do it moment by moment. And that was not very satisfactory to me but I found that he was right.
John:
Do you know something. We have a friend of the ministry, a brother, that we’ve met with, we love. And he literally could read these scriptures and give you the revelation back-to-back. I mean, he has the revelation down pat. He could tell you exactly what it is.
Martha:
And you can’t explain it with your mind. You cannot know it.
John:
No! He probably could do it better than I could. He could probably explain it better than I could.
Martha:
Mentally.
John:
Mentally.
John:
But he says, God bless him, he comes and he says, “I know it. I can speak it. I can give it to you but I don’t have it.” And thank God that he has that integrity.
Martha:
Yes.
John:
Because if you think you have it…How many people do we know who think they have it and are living it and are not?
Martha:
Um hmm.
I remember someone we witnessed many years ago who led a group teaching them the exchanged life. But when we met them, we did not meet Christ. You’ll just have to trust me with such judgment. But really, there was happy, happy. But there was no real presence of Christ. And we knew the presence of Christ not because we’re special but because we just…
John:
Died to it!
Martha:
Died.
John:
Died!
Martha:
Sought it and died.
And literally you die to your life so that His can be the source of everything. And I grieved over that because it is easy, perhaps, to explain it so you think you have it without having any reality.
John:
We know a whole ministry that this is the focal point…
Martha:
Right.
John:
…of their ministry.
Martha:
They are there to teach people Christ’s indwelling and we’ve never met…
John:
…not a single time.
Martha:
Not a single time have we met Christ in any of them.
John:
That’s not a judgement.
Martha:
No, it’s not. It’s because we have the reality that we can say we’ve been there. We know what the non-reality is. I just have to say it, John. We saw it.
John:
Right.
Martha:
And I pray for that group a whole lot because it was tragic to me. How do you pretend to have Christ within? You have to become…
John:
Well, it’s like they verbally said it and then they proclaimed it.
Martha:
They acted it out.
John:
Yeah, exactly.
Martha:
As though it were true.
John:
That’s it.
Martha:
And that’s what…it wasn’t real.
John:
No.
So, I was listening to the radio for a few minutes on the way back from walking and I was shocked. There’s a minister who fills stadium, who has written, many, many, many books. If I said the name which I’m not going to do you would know exactly who this person was. And I heard them say that they started, they tried working in the nursery and children and that didn’t work. And then they tried something else in ministry and that didn’t work. And then tried something else in ministry and that didn’t work. And finally, they tried to speak and teach and that worked. And so, they said, “Well, there that must be it.” And then they started writing books and they said, “Oh my gosh, this must be it. I can write books.”
And the thing that freaked me out is that there was no…Ok, beyond just no exchange of life, that’s not something that’s uncommon. You can open the door of most churches and see that. This person didn’t even seek the will of God for where He wanted to live his life or where He wanted to put him. I’m like going that was just like a hunt and peck kind of deal.
And I’ve written about that on the blog that basically find a job, pick it up, and all day you’ll have good luck. That’s kind of how they live. And I’ve talked about an author in there in the book about they basically find out where God is and then go join Him. No!
Martha:
No!
John:
That doesn’t have anything to do with it. So, I was shocked that this person that brings stadium together doesn’t even preach the Will of God. He doesn’t preach obedience to the Will of God to find beyond even the exchanged life; just to find where He wants them to be.
Martha:
I understand what you are saying.
The Mystery of the Great Exchange – Episode #760 – Shulamite Podcast
You live the mystery of The Great Exchange moment by moment. For many this is not very satisfactory but we’ve found that this was right.
