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Resurrection Life in the Transcendent Church
With Martha Kilpatrick and hosted by John Enslow
This is the continuation of a series of Podcasts started in Episode #601.
Martha reminds us: “Resurrection life only happens on top of the grave.” And there is no transcendent church without the resurrection life of Jesus Christ!
This story comes to mind and it’s real old. A long time ago, I had a friend that we were supposedly together in Christ but there was just wasn’t any unity. And I sat down with her and I said, “One of us is not in the Spirit and it’s not me!” I’m not sure I could always say that but she worked it out somewhat and is still with me after all these years. But that’s, it’s the Spirit. It’s our individual relationship with Christ by the Spirit that keeps us in the flow of the Body, keeps us in the fellowship that is universal and international and mysterious and functions on a level of the spiritual realm that we really cannot comprehend.
You always talk about it as the transcendent Church and for me that, that’s amazing. The transcendence of the Church is Christ the head.
And it’s transcendent. That means it’s above earthly things, human things, visible things. The Church…and Sparks calls it the Church is in the heavenlies. And Ephesians says every spiritual blessing in heavenly places in Christ Jesus. In order to have the spiritual blessings to which you are entitled, you have to be in the Church by being under the head. Well said, John. And then you are in the flow of Christ but it’s by each person being in the Spirit. So there seems to be many things that we are learning and called to share about this experience. It’s not just about Martha. It’s about an empty vessel that was rendered so empty, at last, that God could come through and with a message that I believe was phenomenal even though I really wasn’t there. (Laughs) Here’s the shocking verse (2 Corinthians 2:5): “If anyone has caused you pain (To the Corinthians from Paul) he has caused it not to me but in some measure to all of you for such a one this punishment by the majority is enough.” One person’s immorality hurt everyone in the Church, and so that’s why it’s imperative that the Church Body wherever it’s present and operative must engage in Church discipline. I won’t go into that right now. Didn’t intend to talk about it. But there again, Paul is revealing the oneness of the Church.
Do you think that every time we rely on our self, wherever we rely on our self, in whatever arena, that’s when we bring in flesh and death?
Absolutely! Good grief, John. You want to expand on that?
Well, I just, I mean, I just see that any place that I have independence, which means my life doing it or my will doing it or my self in any way doing it, I have defeat. And I’m wondering, and just, you know, I’ve got a thought about just areas that I do it. And those are the areas that I can’t… I literally… It’s like walking across a bridge that’s, that’s rickety and broken and I fall right through. Any time I pull myself from out from underneath the Head, I bring in death. And there’s areas of my life that I cannot get through and get victory over and I’m wondering if it’s just not because I won’t let Him be head and I won’t let Him be— I won’t be weak is what really what it is. I won’t be weak.
Okay, you won’t be weak and dependent. There you go. You only have His life when you need it.
Well, I need it but it’s the trying.
Um hmm. It’s hard to give up the trying.
Yeah, you know, I’m aware of the need.
Well, why do you think He had to hit me with such weakness? And, see, I was a living picture.
But, see, you could have been weak in that same exact scenario, you could have been weak, and tried. And you would have brought death. You won’t have brought anything. Everybody would have left and said, “Oh! Humph.”
But He produced the weakness that there was no try possible. That’s what’s kind of terrifying. He produced a weakness that I could not conquer…
I get it, yeah, okay.
…and I could not fix and I had to accept and I had to live it. So, see the problem, John, is we can’t, we can’t even do… I tell the, I think on the podcast, that my daughter would say to me, “Mom, you just have to accept your condition.” And I would say, “I know that but I can’t.” And I had to beg Him, “Give me the acceptance You’re asking of me to live like this. I can’t bear it and I can’t do it and I can’t be thankful in it. All of the things You want of me in this weakness I cannot give You. You’ve got to do it for me and in me.” And He did! And it took a long time. But, see, what He did in me was kind of the hard way. I don’t know that I am more resistant or rebellious than anybody else, but it was His choice to manifest in this body and this testimony the result of His diminishing me and weakening me in the way, as Psalms says, was to produce the resurrection life. Only my death to self could produce the option of the resurrection life. And He demonstrated it to you, to us, this little circle, and then He demonstrated it in the meetings and now He’s demonstrating it in the podcast. That resurrection life only happens on top of the grave. And I had to die to being able to work. I had to die to my cooking. I had to die to my gardening. I had to die to all those “efforting” things that I love to do, and to accept that as a lifestyle and perhaps a permanent thing was not easy. And only He could give me… Only His grace and mercy for me gave me the power to let it be and to live helpless.
Maybe that’s the difference right there. Maybe the difference is in the try versus no-try is death.
It’s death, John, yeah! It’s death. You just said it a few minutes ago. You said, “Our— What we produce is death.” When we’re apart from the mind of Christ and we are not in the Spirit, then we are in the flesh. And it, it, just as life produces life, death produces death. We’ve seen that vividly. People come in with death and rebellion. It leaves a death, destruction.
So I’m gonna experience death regardless. I’m gonna either experience the death of my flesh and His life or the death of my will and the death that it produces. I’m gonna get death regardless!
So it’s just whether on the opposite side of the death if I want His glorious life or I want further death. See the difference? But it’s just, it’s literally… Death is the only deal.
Death is our only challenge, our only solution. And to get to Christ the solution and the indwelling Christ, death is necessary. And as much as they witnessed the miracle of life, they also witnessed the reality of death to self. And I can’t, I can’t tell you how terrifying. I would really… I wish I could say I didn’t worry about it. But I would say, “Lord, a hundred and thirty people are coming and some of them are flying here and coming here at great expense that they’ve planned for months. What are You going to do? I am nothing! What is Your solution? I can’t bear it if I stand up and I have nothing to say and I can’t even stand up. What are You going to do, Lord? Why are You doing this because I can’t, I won’t be able to bear it if these people arrive all expectant and I stand up and say, ‘Dub de dub!’” (Laughs) But, of course, He was faithful to my grave and faithful to Himself that He raised… Never have I experienced more vividly the resurrection life and I didn’t have that name for it for many, many months. But it’s a power that’s beyond any weakness of humanity. A power greater— They witnessed in person a power greater than our deepest weakness, our most devastating weakness.
Resurrection Life in the Transcendent Church – Episode #603 – Shulamite Podcast
Martha reminds us: “Resurrection life only happens on top of the grave.” And there is no transcendent church without the resurrection life of Jesus Christ! But how do we know whether we’re powered by Christ’s life or our own rebellious nature? Check the fruit!
The cry from the Reformation: “Sola sriptura” comes to mind — if God commands it in His word, do it. But the living out of this reality of dying to self that you speak of, sounds like a whole different level.
My view, in contrast, has been very watered down. So, in all sincerity, I ask these questions: when it is said, “I had to die to….,” what exactly does that mean? Accept? Surrender? Relinquish? All of these or something more? Is this an effort on our part?
Also, Martha, as you detailed your encounter with Him in His death and resurrection, will it ‘look’ different for each individual?
John, you talked about trying. How can we be ‘dead enough’ to experience His resurrection life without trying? (Thinking of the scripture: “He works in us to will and to do.”)
Not trying to be trite about this . . . do you know how many churches (ours included) do not even mention this topic? So thank you for more insight on this.
“So it’s just whether on the opposite side of the death if I want His glorious life or I want further death. See the difference?” No, John, but wish I did. . . what am I not getting?
It’s really embarrassing to ask such elementary questions, but I didn’t want to just listen and close out without understanding.
His love and blessings to you both!
Indeed John, either way you end up dead!! But isn’t there something you all say about the difference in pain and suffering? It’s somewhere in my mind but I can’t remember exactly… Would that relate to these two different deaths somehow?!
I always look forward to hearing your voices and hearts, Truth and Beauty live in them…
May our Lord God keep you constantly in His care and firmly grounded in His Love…
Big, big hugs!
After listening to the podcast the second time, God reminded me of something. A few years ago I became frustrated with sermon messages that seemed to be “thrown together”. I said, “ Lord, I would rather have the speaker come in and say I have been waiting on the Lord all week for the message and I haven’t heard from Him. So we are going to wait on Him now until He speaks. ” God had not only answered my prayer, but He had given me a firsthand experience (The Narrow Road conference) as to what it looks like. Thank you, Martha for being a surrendered vessel!