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The Revelation of the Great Exchange
Episode #761
7/4/2021
With Martha Kilpatrick and hosted by John Enslow
This the continuation of a series of podcasts started in Episode #759
I ask the Lord to bless your book The Great Exchange and give the readers great revelation that the Son of God is in us for His glory.
Martha:
I wanted to just say to your readers that’s going to be the problem with this book. But the book is not the problem because you teach in the book the revelation.
John:
I give the revelation…
Martha:
You give the revelation.
John:
…with example.
Martha:
Um hmm.
And we can only pray when we get that message and the Holy Spirit will graciously open the eyes because it’s not normal to let somebody else have all of you…
John:
Right.
Martha:
..and live inside of you. That is peculiar…
John:
Right.
Martha:
…if you are going to go intellectually with it.
It is a mystery how He can live within us and how He can perform our life instead of us and for us. And I’ve often said when you understand that He is to do everything that He assigns you to do, He’s to do it for you, you are then a spectator of Jesus Christ in your own life.
John:
And I did it with the videos. I showed how there’s a despair that you have to come to.
Martha:
That’s true.
John:
You don’t just skip to my Lou into this thing. You have to come to the despair of your own life and realize you can’t do it.
There’s another brother that contacted us and he was seeking, seeking, seeking for the message and was saying, “I want the reality of this message” and then he wrote me today and said, “I finished your book and I think I got it.”
Martha:
Oh great.
John:
But the light went on. And now there’s the living it out but the light went on.
Martha:
Well, it’s real, John.
I want to tell a story that comes to mind and I’m going to change it a little bit. There was someone who wronged me not viciously but negligently. And I wanted to sit down and talk. And when I went to speak to this person, Martha didn’t come out, thank God. Jesus came out and gave the most beautiful grace and love and said, “Ah, forget it. It’s nothing. It only blessed me.” And I realized Jesus appeared because I didn’t have that graciousness in me but when I gave Him my body, He had His grace.
John:
Wow!
Martha:
And he spoke and it looked like me but it wasn’t me.
John:
Um hmm. I get that.
Martha:
I knew the difference.
John:
I get that totally, believe me.
Martha:
So, what we do is get out of the way and surrender our body to His inhabit and then He will take over and be who we cannot be. Isn’t that the most wonderful story that could ever be told? Isn’t that the most unbelievable gift of God to us to give us His Son to live inside each of us and Christ together is a beautiful thing. We see it in our group; Christ in everybody. It’s absolutely astonishing if you ever really get it that God would give His only Son to be our very existence so that He would have many, many children who have the same nature. And that what Jesus wanted to give His Father. He wanted to give His Father…The desire of a father is to have many, many children. And thanks to Jesus sacrifice we can be a child of God. But we’re a child of God only as the child that’s in is Jesus.
So, I ask the Lord to bless your book and give the readers great revelation that the Son of God is in us for His glory.
John:
Joan told me the other day what the difference is between the two books The Sovereign Touch and The Great Exchange and I had no idea. And I was shocked when she said it. She said you can read The Sovereign Touch voyeuristically. You can see as I’m going through it and you can witness it as an observer. You can look at it that way. But she says The Great Exchange doesn’t give you that ability. The Great Exchange literally grabs you and pulls you into it. You have to embrace it. You have to…
Martha:
It takes you.
John:
Yeah! I forgot how she said it. I wish I knew how she said it. It was wonderful. But basically, you’re on the path. It’s not like you’re just witnessing someone else on the path. You have to get in it.
Martha:
In the Exchanged Life book you have to get in it. It compels you.
John:
Right. And she said you start out from the very beginning and you have to…It’s scary. I didn’t realize there was a difference in the two books.
Martha:
Well, in both of them you tell your own story.
John:
Yeah, it’s not like I’m not in them.
Martha:
The purpose.
John:
Somehow, it’s different. She just said it was real different because…
Martha:
It’s looking on the outside or being on the inside.
John:
Pretty much, yeah. You have to, when you’re doing The Great Exchange it’s touching everything.
Martha:
Um hmm.
John:
It’s in you. It’s…
Martha:
Compelling you.
John:
Yeah, yeah, yeah and it’s poking stuff. Where God is sovereign, ok, and I take you through the sovereignty it’s one thing. Ok, yeah, sure, sure, He’s the Lord, He’s sovereign over all. Ok I can get that. But this other book is…pokey poke poke…
Martha:
This thing is personal.
John:
It’s deeply personal. And I go deeply personal.
Martha:
Not just you but the content.
John:
Right.
Martha:
And the Holy Spirit is at work for it and I’m grateful because Paul said, “Pray for me as I explain this mystery.”
John:
Yeah.
Martha:
So we thank God for giving us this message.
John:
It’s actually beautiful. I love it, I love it. And there is a ache in the heart for it because of the fact that you want it to be received.
Martha:
Um hmm.
John:
You want the impartation of the message and of the indwelt life and you want the mystery to be received and…
Martha:
And lived.
John:
…and lived.
Martha:
I remember the incident about you because you’ve had to be really a servant in this ministry and to me, for me personally through illness and so forth. And I remember you put your hand over there on that armrest and you said, “It was Christ. It wasn’t me. I could never do what I’ve been required to do.”
John:
That’s the truth. I couldn’t do it.
Martha:
And I realized then that all that I saw in you was Jesus. It wasn’t a man willing to serve. It was Jesus. And I realized that’s true. You could not have done what you did, all that was required through the ministry and to the work; all kind of levels. So, I understood that I had seen Jesus in you all along and that was precious to me because to think that He would make an arrangement to take care of all of us using you. And it was real, real life, real gutteral life, just washing feet.
John:
I told someone the other day I said, “The practicality of Christ is shocking.”
Martha:
Yes, that’s what I love about Him so much.
John:
I mean He’s involved in the very deeply personal.. Oh, that was where this one person told me they said that he’s hearing the Spirit and he’s hearing God in a different way and he said, “I’m amazed at the things that He wants to talk about.”
The whisper. I’m amazed at what those whispers because most of us would think that He’s going to be whispering about scripture and He’s going to be whispering about the will of God and everything like that.
Martha:
Lofty things.
John:
Lofty. It’s all spiritual and it’s all lofty. But He does do that. It’s not like He doesn’t but He’s also so deeply practical.
Martha:
Yes.
John:
And He’ll whisper about practicality. “Why don’t you turn here rather than going there. Why don’t you go get her a glass of water?” How is that eternal? Because if He does it, it is eternal!
Martha:
It is eternal.
John:
Everything He does is eternal.
Martha:
It’s about the verse that says, “Whatever you do do it unto the Lord as unto Him.” And I think it means let Him do it too.
John:
Yeah. Everything unto it would be as Him.
Martha:
I told a couple of silly stories in the last few podcasts about how He found impossible things for me that I had no ability to fix and do. In one case He just put it in me. I walked straight to it and fixed it. He’s so beautiful. That is intimate, too. Because ninety-nine percent of our life is pretty much on the practical.
John:
Practical. Um hmm, yeah.
Martha:
Oswald Chamber is big on…And I believe it’s Joan who says if it isn’t practical, it isn’t spiritual.
John:
That’s right. And I say you have the opportunity to witness, I said this in the video, you have the opportunity to witness the Son of God walking in your life now.
Martha:
Being who you can never be.
John:
Right. Just like you always wished that you could be a disciple and walk with Jesus.
Martha:
You are.
John:
You have something greater than them. You have Him walking in your life, in your choices, in your moments witnessing Him as you.
Martha:
Um hmm.
I seldom say it because it sounds, it doesn’t sound right but I know that He gave me the books I’ve written.
John:
I can tell you the same thing.
Martha:
He gave me the words. He gave you the revelation.
John:
Yes.
Martha:
And he called you to write it and you didn’t decide to write it.
John:
And the words, a lot of the word like I would hear the words. I would hear the sentences. I would hear it and I’d write it. Yeah.
Martha:
And those of us who read it before it went into print were amazed and said it to you over and over again. It was absolutely perfect; grammar and everything. But your use of language especially; your vocabulary and your use of words is just spiritual.
John:
And you know it’s not me.
Martha:
I do. You are a walking miracle.
John:
Yeah, because you know who I am.
Martha:
So, I appreciate, John, the book and I’m so excited to get it out into the world. We just bless all those who would read it.
John:
I’m so grateful.
The Revelation of the Great Exchange – Episode #761 – Shulamite Podcast
It’s a mystery how He can live within us and perform our life instead of us and for us. The Great Exchange reveals just how this is possible.
Grateful to be able to say I too have been a witness of Him living through me … Just amazed at His grace and the Father’s love…
Love you Shulamites