with Martha Kilpatrick and hosted by John Enslow
(M) So I call them the talking trees, they carry the essence of the source, so the trees stand for spiritual entities; love and hatred, life and death; knowledge as coming from below, and knowledge as coming from above.
(J) Revelation verses head knowledge.
(M) Yeah, exactly. So the danger for all of us, the natural tendency of our adamic nature is to think we can know everything, anything; to think we can think. To think we can think our way into the truth, and it’s not possible.
(J) And dictate from that throne.
(M) You got it.
(J) So I mean we sit there and we sit on our little self-appointed throne, and we dictate our little opinions and dictate our edicts over what should be. I mean, that’s the tree of life and death isn’t it?
(M) Yes. Anything that puts events, actions, words, or people, into categories that you make, is death.
(J) Because God can tell you, God can give you the revelation of words of wisdom, words of knowledge, He can give you the discernment; but it’s when you go through, and it’s kind of bull in the china shop and you kind of push through and tell God, ok, this is what this is, and tell everybody else. Because we’re natural evangelists to be able to do it aren’t we, with our own little thoughts.
(M) Well, there’s a passage in Mark that’s very poignant. This verse in the Amplified is Mark 4, I’ll start at 21, and it’s really about the seed. Again what it is saying is that the word God gives is living. That is a foreign concept to us. We can’t get it that what He speaks, if you receive it into you, it bears Life, because it is Life. And it bears within it the creative power of what is in it. Now we can say we have heard that in a sermon, but I’m telling you, to live that is totally different. Jesus gives the parable of the sower in Mark 4, and then He talks about those sown in the well-adapted soil, they are the ones who hear the word and receive and accept and welcome it.
(J) The big word is receive.
(M) Yes, hear and receive, and accept and welcome it; take it in and eat it and absorb it, and bear fruit; sometimes thirty times as much as was sown, some sixty, and some a hundred. And all of a sudden I saw that all you have to do to bear fruit, is listen. And so much of what’s on the website is the fruit that came from listening. I’m always saying you have to experience the scriptures, no that’s not quite it John; you have to experience life with Christ and hear Him interpret it from the Tree of Life; and not put it into categories of what’s right or wrong in your life. I’ve been through something recently that I kept saying I was wrong, I was wrong, I was wrong. And the Lord really would not speak to me about it, until I said, ok, I’m through deciding that I know. And He spoke to me, but I said, I’m desperate to know if I was wrong. And He said, something very powerful to me, which I will share in part. He said, no you succeeded, because you did this for My sake, you didn’t do this for My sake, you moved when I said move and stayed when I said stay. And that is success, to hear the Voice and do what He says. So He said, you weren’t wrong as such. But you see, I start with the premise that I know, and immediately I’m in the tree of death, in darkness and confusion.
(J) Right, right.
(M) But the seed is from the source of Life, and He said, all you have to do is listen, and you’ll bear fruit. Our friend Vicky Harris, in Vienna, who is a missionary that we are close to, she said, the material on your website and what you have taught me, she said it is going out to the nations where you don’t even know. And I think I said to her, Vicky, all we have to do is hear, welcome it, take it in, and let Him interpret everything, and fruit will come from that because it’s Life. And if I hear Him and I speak it, it is Life when I speak it. But if I speak out of my opinion, it is…
(J) It is death.
(M) So He said to them, I’m continuing in Mark 4, “Is the lamp brought to be put under a peck measure, to be put under a bed and not be put on a lamp-stand”. So there’s a relationship between seed and light; to take the seed in then, is to access and manifest light, which is revelation. But you have to hear before you can have revelation and light. Then, “Things are hidden temporarily, only as a means to revelation, but there is nothing hidden, except to be revealed, nor is anything kept secret, except in order that it may be made known. If any man has ear to hear, let him be listening, let him perceive, and let him comprehend.” There is a work to get to here, and then when you hear, there is a meditation and a chewing and absorbing and applying that turns that seed into light, life, and fruit.
(J) So is the turning your heart to be able to receive the work, making the ground fertile? That makes it so you’re able to hear, and then the next work is the actual hearing and receiving?
(M) Yeah. Believing what you hear. I don’t know how to describe it, but it’s kind of letting it go in. One of the most compelling things that the Lord in His Kingship says, in Revelation is, “If any man has ears to hear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” That to me is a rattling word. It means that though He speaks, it’s up to us to hear. And here He says it again. Then He said to them, “Be careful what you are hearing.” I would say, be careful what tree you’re listening to. “The measure of thought and study you give to the truth you hear, will be the measure of virtue and knowledge that comes back to you, and more besides will be given to you who hear. For to him who has, more will be given.” If you listen and you hear it, you’ll get more ‘speaking’. “And from he who has nothing, even what he has will be taken away by force.” And that means that if you don’t treasure the Voice of God, if you don’t keep what He says to you, you will lose that and have nothing more.
(J) You can even have what you knew taken away.
(J) Because you can’t even receive that.
(M) Yes, it is absolutely crucial to go back. And you had some insight as we shared this along the way. What happens to you when you go into the tree?
(J) I just saw the chaotic swirl, the chaotic swirl of listening to the tree of good and evil, and how when you step into that it’s chaos and it brings fear, and it brings hysteria. And when you’re trying to decide and not hearing, it’s chaos. And I really saw that the fear and the chaos and the turmoil, is really part of the judgment and punishment that you deserve for going there. Because basically you’re leaving God at that point and you’re choosing not to hear God and to hear the enemy. So there’s a due punishment, there’s a reward and there’s also a chastisement that comes from listening to something that’s not God. And so it’s a shepherding move, it’s God’s shepherding move to basically curb you into, curb you so that you can see. It’s saying, look what you’re listening to, look at the fruit of this listening, it’s death, it’s performing, it’s bringing forth death in your life. Then you can say, oh my-gosh, I must be listening to the wrong tree. If you’re aware of that, then you could cast your gaze and your hearing back. It’s a reaction to an action, you know? And it’s a shepherding move; do you see what I’m saying?
(M) I do. I stepped into a situation lately and I realized that it was the tree of death. It was trying to define me, and define a situation, and it was real oppressive and confusing and debilitating; and I stopped, and said, wait a minute, this person is eating of the wrong tree. And it is putting me under that, it’s tempting me to think that she’s right and I’m wrong, or I’m right and she’s wrong.
(J) Do you often find that, that when you eat from the tree of death that it’s very, very persuasive to those around us? It’s very persuasive, and that it has a power and an energy-force behind it even though it’s death? Isn’t there a power and an energy-force behind it to persuade and to capture and to kind of lull to sleep? Do you see that?
(M) Oh my word John, that’s exactly what happened to Eve.
(J) Do you see that?
(M) No, I’ve never seen that in those words, that that is actually a power.
(J) Wow. Well, I mean, there’s a power in the Tree of life, and there’s the resurrection power of Christ in eating of that tree. But there’s also a power in the enemy, the enemy has a power, and it may be all illusion and delusion. In sheep, the most afraid sheep tells the rest of the herd that there’s a problem. Well, if we’re in that tree, and we’re in hysteria and we’re in that chaos, there’s a power to convince, and to capture.
(M) Absolutely. And that was happening to me. Because you know if you live in the tree of death, you evoke the tendency in others to go there and to believe it. And I would step back and really got with the Lord. And I realized that we go to the tree of death through fear.
(M) And that Satan made Eve afraid that she would be lacking and that God would not supply her; and from fear she felt that she needed knowledge in order to survive what God didn’t give. So I saw the fear. And without saying it, without telling the person, well you’re eating from the wrong tree, I just say down, I got sort of the word of God about it, and I pulled her out of the tree of death. Sometimes you can’t do that, because people are so into it. And we ended up in the Spirit together, on the same ground, in absolute love and peace. It was really an astounding illustration of what He had just been showing me. But I deliberately took her out of that chaos and hysteria, and just moved her thinking with His thinking. And it ended up that we had complete harmony, and complete peace and joy.
(J) Well that’s a redemptive story where it doesn’t always turn out that way. That’s really wonderful that that situation did turn out that way, because it doesn’t always, because we’re so pressed and committed to the lie and to the tree of death. We’re so committed to that, that we cannot be persuaded out of it.
(M) And there are people like that. I’ve had to see that in the last few weeks, that there are those who love the darkness and the death, because their deeds are evil; I’m on that in Cain, as you can tell. They love that and they can become so steeped in it that there’s no possibility that they will hear. And sometimes you have to walk away from a person who is not persuadable and who is not amenable to life.
(J) Well sometimes that walking away is the very reaction that will bring them through, because they’ll see, this is serious.
(M) And I must be wrong, sometimes.
(M) And sometimes the only gift you can give a person is to let them have their delusion. In Roman’s one it says God gave them over to this and this, so the reason He gives them over to what they want, and what they get, is that He let’s them have the fruit of their belief. I remember Carol had a vivid revelation some years ago that there is the fruit of religion, which is the tree of good, the ‘good’ part, is torment. I think she called it the reward of religion, is torment, because it’s from that tree, the tree of good.
(J) There’s a sowing and reaping, and it’s real.
(M) It really is, and if you sow to the Spirit, you’ll reap from the Spirit as well.