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Tapestry of Grace
Episode #164
With Martha Kilpatrick and hosted by John Enslow
Special guests: Jacquelyn, Jennifer and Carole
(Jacquelyn) I don’t know where this fits in. I don’t even know if we want to say this, but I remember years ago, when a well-known Bible teacher came to your home with several of her disciples. And I was struck because they were all like her. None of them had any individuality. I remember they all dressed like her. They all had on, I think the same trench coat. And that was so opposite of how you have discipled us. How you have… you have wanted us to be who we are, not who you are. But at the same time, I think perhaps in the beginning maybe we all were, I don’t want to put that on anybody, but I thought I was supposed to be like you. Because I was in my old man, I didn’t know who I was. And it’s like I had to leach off of you to have ‘a person’, to be a person. Because I would not accept that I’m nothing, I’m obscure, I’m nothing. And I would not accept that. I had the ambition that Julie was talking about, because I would not be nothing, and be obscure. I was nothing, and because I was nothing I had to leach off of you. And then I had to learn from you. And I’m talking about God in you. But I was not supposed to be like you, I’m not a clone, I’m a creation of God.
(M) See Jacquelyn, what… Before we ever were a group, He established me in identity. He taught me that and instilled it in me. So when you came, and all the others came, I wanted your individuality, only because I had mine. If He hadn’t established that in me… And I longed to know that new creation, because it represented Him. And I even have a passion for what I’ve called my vision of you in Christ, what was the new man, because I need that. I need you. I need your new creation. It’s not just that I want it for you, there’s an element in it that I need it; I need to know Him multi-faceted, and you’re going to show me His creation in ways I don’t know. That’s the Body of Christ. It’s made of… You are individually members of one Body. So the development of that person, in the new creation, it takes a long time; it did for Jacob, it does for all of us. And, even to become frustrated with the process is unnecessary, because He is going to fight for that new creation. And He is going to pursue it, because it’s Him. It’s your union with Him. Do you want to jump in Jennifer?
(Jennifer) I don’t know, you may cut this, and maybe you should. I just, in listening to Jacquelyn and to Sue and to Julie and John and you. One of the things that the Lord’s been kind of exploding in me in the last week, is uhmm…You were talking about stealing and, and the old man being a thief. Stealing messages, other people’s fruit really, other people’s revelations, identities in many ways. And that fundamental thievery that’s at the heart of the old man, however it’s going to manifest, it’s there. And Martha, you were talking about the church where there were the pretty ‘boxes’, and this is the safe way to be accepted. This is how you are loved and accepted in this group. You wear the, the denim skirt. Sorry you ladies who wear them, I’m not disparaging the denim skirt; but you know what I mean. Let’s just say that’s the uniform, ok? But this is ‘it’; this is how you’re part and parcel. And I’m… My license to defy authority was rejection. Having been rejected. My inability to fit in those boxes, to succeed as a good person, to be a good Christian, ok? The rejection that came, I have taken that and made it a license to defy authority. I bow to no man, kind of rings through. And there’s more than one way, to make a law of striving and effort. And one way is to strive and have ambition to be even Christ-like, right, to have that. And I feel like I need to share the flip side of that coin because it’s just as awful, and just as devastating, which is to say, “oh well, I can’t do it? Fine. The hell with all of you. And the hell with striving, and trying, and…” But you still are. Do you see what I’m saying? But it’s in rebellion. You make a wall of rebellion. And I guess that kind of… There were a couple of comments or e-mails, and you know in the ministry a lot of e-mails come through, and people commenting on podcasts and this, that and the other. And so many wonderful, wonderful people who, you know, share so openly, and it’s amazing. And then there are some people who share in a different way. And the Lord’s been showing me that in many ways it’s me. And they latch on to one thing, one thing, and use it to kind of discount everything. And that’s been me. That’s been my law of rebellion. And I don’t know that it’s necessarily my generation, that it’s younger, but I do think the god of cynicism and pessimism… it’s a death eater. And that’s been my walk. And I do think that for the younger generations innocence is lost so early, and things are so… Ah, the lies are just paramount. It’s not, there’s no, there’s really so sense of wonder anymore in the way there was. And I was thinking about that because I was thinking about the landing on the moon, and these things that have happened, and people saying, “oh my goodness, that’s just miraculous, and that’s just amazing, and….” I don’t know. I think that the reverse of that is to internalize that rejection and to say that it gives you a reason to not just reject God, but to make a law of rebelling against any and all spiritual authority that might come into your life. And that’s been the flip side for me. And He’s been showing me very drastically. But there’s a reveling that has been very personal in my life, a reveling in that death, and saying. “Ok, so I can’t measure up? Fine, watch me wallow! I’m going to do it, and I’m going to be fantastic at it! I’m going to be fantastic at failing.” And that’s, that’s an equal striving.
(M) And that’s, that’s why I want to validate the process. It is inevitable. It’s unavoidable. We so humanly, we so love the old wine. And we believe, it says, “it’s better”.
(J) Well if you have ‘the helmet hair’, or if you hate ‘the helmet hair’, ok? It really doesn’t matter. (Background laughter.) If you wear the helmet, and the uniform, and you have the, the haircut, and you look exactly like… or you hate it. It’s still, either or of those, is ah… (Martha interjects: is nothingness.) Nothingness. But it’s also saying this life is ‘better’, this way is ‘better’, this helmet hair is ‘better’, than Christ. This hatred of the helmet hair is ‘better’ than Christ. Both of them are totally, completely incorrect. Because it’s only the life of Christ, that’s where your individuality comes in. And His individuality comes in, and how He wants to pour Himself through me, so.
(Jacquelyn) Can I add this? Can I add something? In John eleven it talks about gathering the scattered. And this is how scattered I am. Ok, I wanted to be like Martha. But at the same time the Lord said to me, you’ve been a maverick all your life. So I’ve been like Jen. I’ve been both. (Laughter) That’s how insane I’ve been.
(M) That’s schizophrenic.
(Jacquelyn) Yeah, I’ve been schizophrenic. (Laughter) And a maverick is, to me is, I’ve just been independent; I will be God, and I’ll take care of myself, and I’ll do what I please.
(Background comment) I’m no ‘sheeple’!
(Jacquelyn) That’s right! ( Laughter) I’m a goat.
(M) Well, Carole had mentioned Galatians’. I wanted her to share what she got out of that.
(Carole) Well, as she was talking, and Jen, I identify completely on that side too, because I’ve been absolutely both, and have worked in both of those systems. But all of a sudden, what Paul said to the Galatians’, well it was just a revelation. He said, oh you foolish Galatians’, how is it that you have left so quickly what you got so readily? And I do that. I understand that completely. Because when we go into effort, we have fallen from grace. Because what we saw in the last couple of days was that grace is not just God’s attitude, His empathy, His sympathy, whatever, it is God’s power, and His works, for and to man, to me, to us. Into the law of effort we have fallen from that grace.
(M) And we have no power.
(Carole) And we have no power. And we are in madness. And we are in insanity, and hysteria, uhmm, absolute hysteria. And I can’t, I know for, personally, I can’t hear. I can’t even hear Him when I get into that, when I’ve fallen from His grace. And this morning I was praying for a word for Martha. And I went through several different things, I don’t know what they mean yet, and I have to go back and read them. But where I ended up was in Psalm 20. And Psalm 20 talks about… It’s, it’s a prayer. And it’s a prayer for His strength; it’s a prayer for His grace. And the last, the last verses it says I will not trust in the chariot, I will not trust in the horses, but I will trust in You. And that’s it, that’s it.
