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The Authority Of God
With Martha Kilpatrick and hosted by John Enslow
Special Guests: Carole Nelson, Julie, and Jacquelyn Nawrocki
(Carole) Well I’ve just never seen it like I’m seeing it, and I’m wondering, the scripture where it says, “a woman shall encompass a man”, is that what that means? I don’t know, I’m not… The question just comes to me that it is the need for that mother who is, that spirit of a mother that is compassionate and loving and gentle, and uhmm… (Comment in background, “and sees.”) and sees.
(Julie) And sees. That’s what I’m thinking of, the even when you were talking about correction a few minutes ago, you’ve given us a paradigm for correction that I think is different than any I’ve ever encountered before. You, you would say it’s like you see in the block of marble, you see the statue, that’s how you would tell it to us. You see the David’s, Michelangelo, whatever, and you… That’s why, that’s, that’s just a whole different heart I think. It’s all about identity, and you calling us to our identity. And somehow that ties in with Debra, doesn’t it? I mean didn’t you say at one point John, not long ago, that that’s what Debra did, she called Barack to his identity.
(Jacquelyn) Oh I’m so glad you mentioned identity, because I’ve been thinking that when God through correction, sometimes, mighty correction, got me to submit to authority, only then did I know my identity. Without, if you’re not under authority you don’t know your identity, and you will get into legalism and ah, whatever. Under authority, under Martha’s authority, and under your authority John, God has given me permission, and I didn’t know I needed permission, to be who I am; and that is only under authority.
(Julie) Well, in all these things coming together, uhmm, it’s a whole different expression of the authority of God, that’s what I’m seeing this morning, in the Holy Spirit, that it has everything to do with us coming to our identity, because the ‘mother’ has the secrets of that, so to speak. I mean it’s so much greater when it’s the Holy Spirit, we as mothers have a little bit of an idea of who our children are more than they do at times in their life, and that’s part of what we’re looking at when we’re correcting them. But with the Holy Spirit, His knowledge of us is perfect. I mean He knows our identity so much better, and so I’m just wondering, is it even possible to come to that identity without coming under authority. Because our experience has been, there’ve been a lot of times that you as the authority over us had a vision for us that we didn’t have, genuinely.
(M) Julie referred to a, a U-tube video that, that we played at the conference. It’s difficult to share this, but I really wanted to on the podcast. I had a friend here from Ireland, and the Lord told me it was going to be a highlight of my life, that, for her coming, would be a highlight of my life. And she was talking about how we look in each other’s eyes and have a mirror of ourselves. And she’d said it once, and I heard her, but then another time she said it, and it exploded in me. And I realized, many years ago I read this somewhere, that an infant gets it’s, ah, perception that it exists, from a mother’s gaze. And that if the mother doesn’t focus on the child in early infancy that the child does not believe it exists. And I realized over the years God had given me such a ministry of the Spirit in that way, that I can see… I’ll tell you about my son. I would pray, Lord, I want to see this person that happens to be my child, with Your eyes. And I want my goal to bring that child to Your creation of them. And so my oldest son was on the way to be a businessman. He was getting his college lined up, and I, and I said to him, Scott, you are not a businessman, you’re a scientist. You’re not going to be happy in that field. And then I left it with him and the Lord. And the Lord used his… My second son Lee went to be an orderly in the hospital, and he faced a lot of things. He was just delightful about it, because it didn’t bother him, or if it did he dealt with it. Anyway, he told Scott, oh you can go through this. And so Scott went to medical school. But that is a ministry of the Spirit in us. I see it now as the ‘mother-love’. That He gives me an idea of who you are, and I can’t stand your being what you’re not. And that’s what correction is. It’s what you’re trying to say Julie, what you well said. Ah, Michelangelo saw the statue, and knocked off everything that was not the statue in the marble. And that’s why sometimes I can be pretty fierce, and say, that is not you, you are being someone you think you should be, and not being someone you are; and God made you to be ‘this’ and ‘this’. And that is, that is the ministry of the Holy Spirit, I think in all of us. You at times call me to be who I am, when I’m not functioning or believing in the right way. And ah, but that’s, so then I told this to our meeting after my friend… Ah, I think we shared a lot about it while she was here, and then when she went back home we had a meeting and I shared that was my highlight, I was returned to a root that God established in me, and I could understand my dealings with all of you. I see in John, a writer. And ah, he’s now, (Martha laughs) coming to do the under-girding work that will issue in some very creative writing eventually. And I think several of us… I think we are a writing portion of the Body of Christ. So, Jennifer had this video; we’ll have to get the site. But they’re doing enormous studies now on infancy. And they showed this little child, I don’t remember the age, but it was in a highchair, very young. And they had the mother, who was very into relating to this infant, they had her relate normally, and they were just communing back and forth and the baby would point and the mother would look. And I think the baby would say, “there”, couldn’t speak, but there was a tremendous interaction and understanding between them. And then they asked the mother to not react. And the child became disturbed, then hysterical. And John noted that when the mother… She couldn’t bear it anymore, she (Martha laughs), she couldn’t bear the distress of this infant who wasn’t being ‘seen’. And I saw that as if you never got that as a child, or if you got too little, then you have to become a ‘lie’, because you can’t, you don’t know who you are, you don’t know how to just be, because you don’t exist until you are affirmed that you exist. And ah, I don’t know how many of us, I don’t know how many will understand that, but there it is. And so you become religious, or you become a persona, or a caricature, instead of you. And the video was a vivid illustration of that, and the research they’re doing on this connection to the infant is ah, astounding. It even, I believe it’s some of the, some of the results are our learning disability problems, because it does affect literally, physically, the child, physically their brain. It affects, it hinders the development of the brain. I’m going to go study that when I can.
(J) That is a scary thought. Ok, so I’m, I’m going to say it, but I, I don’t have anything to back it up. But I wonder if ADD, Attention-Deficit-Disorder, is not attention-deficit-disorder.
(J) If those children have not been engaged and told that they exist, so their brain literally has a deficit, ah, because they… And that’s what they were showing, is there was a deficit in their brain, from not being acknowledged as a person.
(M) Simply looked at and engaged ‘eye to eye’, as my friend Lynn mentioned.
(J) Think about, if you think about how that baby was responding, and beginning to respond, it’s very ADD, like ‘ahhh-uhhhhuhuh’, freaked out.
(M) Very, screaming.
(M) Writhing in its little high chair. And I’m going to just, since we’re on this, I’m just going to say I came in pondering this, in pondering the, the fresh revelation of it, I realized that… I’m just going to say this, that I believe that I look at God for the ‘you’, and that I actually see you with His view. Well somebody said to me, somebody real close to me said, “I believe you see me as God sees me, and not as I am.” Well, I really do see her as she is, but more than that, I see God’s, if I’m looking at God with that person in mind, then I see with His eyes, and I cannot… With Him I cannot bear, it’s very painful to me, those things that are not that person. There’s some people, I’ve seen them for years, and they have never broken through to become themselves. And some of you here, of course have been willing to come through. And it explains to me why it takes years for some people to come down from that hysterical effort ‘to be something’, anything, just to exist.
(J) I wonder if it’s not more about healing, a physical healing of, ah, an emotional and physical neglect, physical damage, defect.
(M) Yeah, and, and someone I prayed for this week in the conference, I prayed for her brain to be healed. As we’ve found out the brain conforms, the literal brain, the neurons and whatever else you call them, the brain conforms to your beliefs, and conforms to your habits. And to transform the mind has to be a transformation of the neurons in the brain. And I believe physical healing does go with it. That the Lord will do that, as He’s healing your existence, your perception of your existence, He will also heal… The brain will be healed by the transformation of being looked at and being told you have value, and no, no, you don’t have to be, you don’t have to be somebody great, you’re great and wonderful as you simply are. It’s hard to, I don’t know if that’s clear or not, it’s so clear to me. I’m not sure how understandable it is.
(Jacquelyn) And so those under… that are not under authority, that haven’t been looked at, and know who they are, they’re really running around saying ‘look at me, look at me, look at me’, tell me I exist.