with Martha Kilpatrick and hosted by John Enslow
(M) But you know, I thought personality was that some people are humorous, some people are serious; I thought that was personality. Some people have a tendency to run ahead, like Peter in the Gospels; some people are quiet; I thought that was personality. No it isn’t, that’s temperament, God-given temperament. Personality is what I choose to be.
(J) Well I’ve never heard that before.
(M) I never have known it either. It’s just so exciting I’m about to bust, because it is huge. It means that the difference between a healthy life and an evil life, is whether or not you are willing to grow and be challenged. And if you remain rigid and unchangeable, uninfluenceable and unteachable, and you’re going to stay in a safety zone, I think it’s really fear John. We went a long time on fear. I believe that people that give in to their fear cease to grow. To grow you’re going to have to go past your fear and be challenged. You’re going to have to accept things that are beyond you, that overwhelm you. And you’re going to have to see…..you’re still frowning. I’ll tell you why you have always evolved. Want me to tell you why you’ve always evolved from a little child?
(M) Because as a small child, somehow you chose the truth. You saw everything in terms of the truth. It was very difficult at times, and very painful, but all your life you have gone for the truth. And to see the truth means you have a choice. People who are rigid believe the lie that life is bad, and that they’re unsafe. Do you see what I’m saying?
(J) Yeah, it just reminds me of “The Matrix” so much. You know, just the faceless masses walking through life believing whatever they were told to believe. They performed what they were told to perform; they did what they were supposed to do; they acted the way they were supposed to act, in the mass. But then there was the one that had to choose to come out of the mass. I know that some people were repulsed by that movie.
(M) Well I was.
(J) Well yeah, you were.
(M) But it was a vivid picture by someone who understood. It was hard for me to swallow the movie, and get its meaning, I couldn’t get it. But it was really about choice, love, and vision.
(J) Yeah, and I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone per se. But it was a visual picture, and I’m very visual, and so it was a visual picture and it gave me a broader spectrum of the whole. I could say, oh, I haven’t seen it this way. It was an object lesson for me, that’s all it was. He chose to come out of the masses. But it wasn’t easy, and it wasn’t without pain. But it was a choice that got him out of it. And what you’re saying is that the personality is our choices. By no means are we promised that if we make these choices, any choices, that it won’t have pain. I don’t know where that whole under girding thought is, that if I choose right, and if I do right, then I won’t have any pain. Well that’s a bunch of garbage. You’ll probably have more pain.
(M) Right. See, as a child you felt the pain of your life, because you’d tell the truth about it. But it is possible for other people to choose a lie and try to get out of the pain. And so they are on the wrong course from childhood.
(J) Well I can’t say that I didn’t try to dull the pain, I mean I did.
(M) Right, but even that you knew was. Basically the integrity is, regardless of what you do, right or wrong, your basic integrity was to tell the truth. And that is the basic choice of life. I didn’t choose the truth as a child. I suppressed my pain. And when the Lord came into my life is when I began to cope with life by the truth. But that is the basic choice of personalities. If you choose to avoid pain you have no personality because you’re not living. Life is a challenge. The truth is very, very painful. It’s a lot of suffering to see the truth. But that suffering is the means to developing, to growing; and growth is everything. The promise is that we’ll be a green tree in our old age, with God, to declare His wonders to the next generation. And a green tree means growth, life, continuous change, and continuous growth. The analogy is very interesting as it relates to old age, because a tree never stops growing as long as it’s alive. And as long as we’re alive we’re supposed to be growing bigger and bigger in terms of integrity and character. And then God responds to us according to that, to the secret integrity. I have history with people who have come out of extreme mental, I won’t say mental illness; I’ll say extreme sickness of the soul, simply on the basis of choosing to be responsible and tell the truth; after a lifetime of irresponsibility and not telling the truth. It is a work. You have to do it some time or other, or you will die, or you will live dead. You have to do the work. If you don’t do it in this life you’ll face God with it.
(J) I mean, bear the yoke in your youth, you know. Make your choices when you’re young. You have the power to do it. But we’ve seen several people that are in their elderly ages and they’re not able to carry that yoke, they’re not able to bear it.
(M) It’s too late; is that what you mean?
(J) Unfortunately I do. It would take such a mass movement to recoup from what you’ve laid the foundation of. Bar an absolute miracle of God, it’s never going to happen.
(M) With some people, yeah, because they’re still choosing. There is a work, a tremendous work of choosing and growing; and finding out what you’re supposed to choose. What is the meaning of this challenge? There are tremendous pressures that He puts on the ones He loves. And you have to find that. What are You after? And then to choose that; say ok, now that I know what you’re after I can agree.
(J) I can remember back in the early nineties when I was with Yvonne Peters, and hanging out with her and her husband Carl. And I remember that there was a power in being with someone of a like mind that was willing to grow. And Yvonne, she was just one who was willing to grow. So there was a spark that happened, of life, because there were two people wanting to grow with God. And it doesn’t mean that there wasn’t pain, that there wasn’t struggle, there wasn’t whatever. But I just specifically remember her, and we would talk and there was life in it. And I’m always drawn to people that are evolving and moving and growing. There’s an energy force. Do you know what I’m saying?
(M) Yes I do. Iron sharpens iron. And that’s what relationship is supposed to be.
(J) So then when you look at what it’s not, when you’re with somebody that’s dead, and you’re trying to drag them forward, what a labor it is. And then finally you just say goodbye. I can’t do it anymore, goodbye. Because it’s a drain on you, it takes you down, it takes up all of your life. But boy when you’re with someone who is excited about life, and growing. I’m not talking about some superficial thing. I’m talking about someone who’s just charged with life.
(M) And whose values are wisdom and the knowledge of God. I think that that’s why two people doing a job is a greater energy, its like three people, or even more. But you cannot move a person who has chosen not to grow; no matter how much they would like to take your energy and motivation. If a person has not chosen to grow, you can never make that choice for them, never.
(J) Ok. But what happens if you hang out with that person too long. Does it eventually kill you?
(M) Yes. That’s why I keep thinking of a verse these weeks. “Be not deceived, bad company corrupts good morals.” Of course there’s much in that. And I was thinking of wisdom when you were speaking, that wisdom is something you have to acquire. There are only two sources of wisdom; one is below and one is above. And what we’re really talking about is acquiring the wisdom to live and to relate to God.