with Martha Kilpatrick and John Enslow
(J) Well Martha you just did a message called “The Glory Of God” for the CD of the month, and I really appreciated it. You sent through and you talked about the scriptural basis for the glory, as well as your experience of the glory. And we need a podcast; we’re about to go in to the conference, and actually this message will be after the conference; we’ve already done the conference when this will air. But we’re…this weekend will be conference, “The Coming One,” and we’re praying for… as well as a lot of people are standing really for us, and for the Lord’s purposes in this meeting. I’m kind of amazed at how many people are praying, that are just saying, hey, we’re coming, we’re praying, or we’re unable to be there and we’re praying. And it’s been just an incredible response and feedback from the conference, and us doing it. Actually for conferences that we’ve put on this will be the most amount of people that are coming. So, I’m real, real excited to see what He’s doing. Why now? What are You going to say, what are You going to do? And you know, there’re been…We’ve had a number of conferences where it’s been very intimate, very small, under fifty people. And then you’ve done others that are, you know, five hundred, but that’s been hosted by other people. So I’m really, you know, kind of amazed at the how many people are going to be coming. But I wanted to do a podcast basically just talking about what you just spoke about. And I found myself wanting to say oh, and remember, and oh, and remember that and so I wanted to …. And I actually did interject that, and I’ll just kind of clip those out. But when you were speaking and you were saying about all the areas that the glory has really manifested itself, and I’ve realized that it’s actually there’s been more times. And now I’m realizing, just because of what you’ve just spoken, that you’re ministry has been marked with glory. That literally there are marks of glory throughout the entire time I’ve been here. I’ve been here, what, almost fifteen years now? And throughout the entire time there has been evidence of the glory of God. Now, when I came to you, I came out of a revival, and there was a bunch of revival that was happening for months and years, and I was really looking for the Lord. I was very hungry and I was looking for Him, and I was begging Him to come and to move and to manifest. And I think I was looking in all the wrong places. And because I was trying to dictate to Him how it was gonna be. I wanted Him to prove to me that ‘He was’, and to touch me. Well He wouldn’t do that. (Laughter) He thwarted me in every possible way; offended me, which He is very capable of doing as well as devoted to offending where I’m proud; and trying to tell Him how He’s to be God.
(M) And I remember you telling me He touched everybody around you, but you.
(J) Oh my-gosh, that was, that was horrible! I mean you know, you get up there, and everybody’s laid out, and I’m just standing there like a tree of… I wish it was righteousness, but… (Laughter) My boots were not very sweet.
(M) But you were seeking Him.
(J) I was seeking Him. But He didn’t come the way I wanted Him to, so I was angry. And, but since I’ve really been seeking Him and in His sovereignty, in His will, in His ah…
(J) There’s the word, Lordship. As I’ve been seeking that, He has actually come, and He’s shown Himself, and ah… I mean, you can see there was, you know, the time in the airport when there was smoke in the airport and we were looking around and you were coming to pick me up. It was before 9/11; it was before they prevented you from going to the gates, and you came… I was flying up, and you met me at the gate and we were coming and walking up in Atlanta airport, and literally we were going up the escalator and it was filled with smoke. And I’m looking around and nobody is responding. And I have this like really weird kind of gooey feeling, but I’m going what is this? And I’m looking at you and I’m saying are you seeing this?
(M) I thought it was cigarette smoke; or there was a fire, but there was no smell of any thing burning.
(J) It was cool remember? It was…
(M) Cool. And we began to be weak, weak-kneed, and a little staggering.
(J) Um-hmm. And so I wandered through, and we kind of made it to your car. But it was amazing. And ah, I had no idea what that was. I mean you know, later on when you told me it was the glory. And then, in New York where He came.
(M) Remember, let me go back to the airport. Remember when you got in the car? You couldn’t even sit up. Do you remember?
(J) Oh I do. I wanted to way down on the floor.
(M) Yeah, I could barely drive. And we were listening to some worship song and we were worshipping. And I thought, I hope I get home. I hope I get you wherever you were staying. But the glory was on us past the airport, and…
(J) It was tangible.
(M) It was tangible, and that time it was visible.
(J) Visible and tangible. And I’ve heard of, you know, people speaking about glory, and glory meetings, and everything like that. And I’ve been disappointed in what I’ve seen. And I think that… I’m glad He’s disappointed me. I praise Him for disappointing me, because He said I’m not going to stroke your emotions, I’m not going to puff you up and give you an emotion so that you call it My glory. No, I will be God. You will bow. And then I will manifest how I want to manifest to you. And you know, it was very light; it was very visible. The other time in New York, I was… I wanted to get my chest on the ground as fast as I possibly could.
(M) Start at the beginning in the balcony, when I was speaking, the glory came to you.
(J) I was sitting there in the balcony, in the sound booth doing the sound. And all of a sudden it came down on me and it felt like something was sitting on my chest. And I knew it wasn’t a physical ailment. I knew that I wasn’t having a heart attack or anything like that. But I was going, (John takes a deep breath) oh my-gosh, I was having trouble breathing. And it was a crow’s nest; the stairs were like, almost like a ladder. And I literally came falling down the stairs.
(M) I could hear you fall.
(J) I didn’t care; I just had to get on the floor. I mean I would’ve thrown myself over the balcony to get on the floor, because I just had to get on the floor.
(M) What was the feeling that made you feel that? Was it just…
(J) It was awe; but it was also, it was humility. It was… I wanted to be… I knew I was low, and I wanted to be low. To be in that balcony was obscene to me.
(J) And I had to be on the ground. And so I was weeping and just you know, ah… It wasn’t a ‘fun thing’. It wasn’t a, ‘Ouuuuu-eee”. It was a, ‘Oh, God, I have to get’… I mean if I could have gotten lower than the ground I would have. I was pushing myself into the ground because I was, it was, I was too high. (Laughing) Uhmm, so ah, you know, and then, you know it’s just been, there’s been, you know… And then when you were in New York, in Syracuse, and a couple people saw it. I ended up seeing it, that I saw you glowing. I mean you were doing a message about the ascended life, and you were talking about that in the scriptures it says; I don’t know what scripture it is, about the glow-worm? That you will literally…
(M) That if your eye is single you will be illumined. And the real inference is you will glow, like… But the funny thing was, I was heading in that direction, but the glowing came before I ever named that scripture and taught it.
(J) I was looking at you, and I was saying is that the reflection from her computer? Is it a light up there? What is that? And I was trying… If you remember, I was walking back and forth in the back staring at you trying to say, what is that? And I went and looked at the monitor; they were doing a video of the message, and I was looking at the monitor and I said, what is that? And it was not until after the message that I was in the back, and we did a book table in the back, and a gentleman came up and he said, she’s different. And his wife said no, no she’s not. And he said oh yes she is, she’s different; she was glowing before. And I said, did you see it? He said oh, absolutely. So I was, I thought good, at least I’m not crazy, you know. And you just… I literally, all I could see is your nostrils, your lips, and your eyelashes. And everything else was ‘glowy’. And ah… But that’s what you were speaking on and…
(M) But you know I had no feeling of that at all. I didn’t even feel anointed particularly at that point. I had absolutely no idea that was happening. It wasn’t about me.
(J) And, and yeah. And, and, it didn’t come in as a big loud booming voice to say this is the glory of God. In that you were just illumined. And it was afterwards in the smoke in the airport, that that was… it wasn’t… Now but one in the other New York trip it was, you know, booming. So I can’t tell Him how He’s going to come, nor when, nor how it’s going to affect me. And so, I know that the glory is real because I’ve experienced the glory, but…and I’ve seen the glory. But now I’m seeing the evidence of it throughout your ministry. And I would never have put that… I would never have said that was your ministry.
(M) Someone that was there, I think it was ’85 when the glory came on me at a large women’s conference that I told about on the tape. She said, you are the, I think she said ‘the carrier’ of the glory. And I could never really get that, because I really believe everybody who’s born-again is a carrier of the glory. That’s what we’re supposed to ‘go for’; and ask for, like Gerald Erstein did in, I think it was Minnesota. And they asked for the glory to fall on them. That’s pretty courageous; if you’ve, if you’ve experienced the glory you know, ‘yeah, I kinda want it’. But I’m, I’m energized for us as a group, and for, for the conference, to pray for the glory to fall, for God’s glory to appear in some form, whatever He wants it to be.
(J) I think that it’s been profaned.
(M) Oh yes. Oh it has; it grieves me because it’s been made common.
(J) It’s been made common, and it’s been made the servant of man. And, and ah…
(M) And it’s not . . .
(M) So whatever appears is not necessarily God.
(J) Well I, I mean, you know the, the glory is for God’s glory. And God’s…
(M) It’s to see Him; not to have some experience. Someone wrote me recently; I’ve not been able to answer her, because what she described as the glory of God, I don’t bear witness with. I don’t believe that those things that she described were the glory of God. It’s frightening what’s out there.
(J) It’s, it’s been profaned. I believe it’s been profaned and, because … and really I believe that when you… And I think I wrote this on the website. When you look for a manifestation of God to prove God’s love, God’s favor, God’s ‘something’, you’re in big, big trouble. You’re set up for delusion.
(J) Because when you’re looking for it as an evidence of His proof, when He’s given you every evidence in His Son, it’s anti-Christ! And that’s, I mean, you know I always go straight down to the bottom line there; it’s anti-Christ. If you are looking for something other than Christ, to prove that God loves you and is…
(M) So you don’t have to work to believe. That’s…
(J) Oh. There’s, that’s a scary thought.
(M) And you know John, anytime we seek, and I’ve done it, everybody does it. When you seek something of God instead of God, you’re going to get off track. The manifestation of God rather than God. When you want God, He will manifest Himself. Jesus said to the Pharisee’s… They said ok, give us a sign. Well my goodness, He’d already healed people in front of their face, and they still asked for a sign. And He said no sign will be given you, but I think He said the sign of Jonah, which was resurrection. And so, I appreciate your clarity about that.
(J) Well it’s a huge sign. The Son was raised from the dead and now sits on the right hand of the Father, and that is evidence to me and to you and to everyone, that He loves me, that He loves us, that He, that He was willing to extend Himself. He doesn’t have to prove Himself anymore. Though He will manifest Himself, though He will do great wonders and miracles and stuff like that; and though He will provide and He will do… He will be everything a Father is, but He is… When you lay on the line, when you kind of say ‘here’s my cards’, I bet you, and He’s just, well you can bet all day long. But the only thing you’ll find in that is, is ah, soulish delusion.
(M) And He is God. That’s what He will always; you’ll always have to come to. He’s God, not me.