with Martha Kilpatrick and hosted by John Enslow
(M) Good morning John. We had a conversation this morning, and you told me you had some answers for me. And on the last podcast you introduced the booklet “The Great Lie.” And while you were talking about your vision of it and the disease we have of not believing God is good, I just wept, and wept, and wept, because you showed me that it was bigger, a bigger truth. You kind of revealed to me that the significance of this booklet is bigger than I understood. But I’ve had a couple of encounters in the last ten days, and both people have really heard the truth, had encounters with God, and they go back to the same ground every time. One of them goes back to being locked and frozen in fear. The other one goes back to inertia. And I’ve seen them come through. I’ve seen them get a revelation and Christ’s presence. And I don’t understand because it reveals that there is not honesty of the heart with God, because if you really are honest with God in your heart it begins to solve things. And even if you go back over and over again, if you’re honest in your heart, from your heart with Him, He will just keep with you until it’s conquered. But it comes from conversation with Him, to me. The other one is, it’s unbelief in the basic tenets of the scriptures. I don’t understand how you can be so close to real truth, to the validity of the scriptures, and have no breakthrough from those things. How you can have no fight with your mind, which goes against the Word of God. Do you understand what I’m saying?
(M) It’s not that my nature’s any different than anybody else’s, it isn’t. But I’ve always bumped my head on scripture and said Martha you’re the liar. But it seems that if you don’t do that, you end up as an enemy of God, and servant of Satan.
(J) Umhum, umhum.
(M) Is that true?
(J) Oh, absolutely.
(M) Tell me, help me understand, how you can have the Word of God and not know that it confronts your thinking and your lies and your beliefs.
(J) Well I can tell you that when I came to you, God specifically said that I was a proto-type, remember?
(J) And ah…
(M) What is a proto-type?
(J) A proto-type is a representation of …
(M) What’s to follow?
(J) Let’s look at the definition of proto-type, because that was the specific word that we got.
(M) A first, proto-type, noun; a first or preliminary model of something from which other forms are developed, or copied. Ok. An example. Proto-type is an example, for others to follow.
(J) Ok. Well it’s not ah, (John laughs), it’s not complimentary I mean, in that…
(M) Oh, but it is, it’s a calling He trusts you with.
(J) Ok, ok, I like that, ok, that’s cool.
(M) And you know what, you’re willing to be the proto-type, and you reveal yourself. And you’re about to do it today.
(M) And that helps people more than my speaking…
(J) No, I don’t think so; I don’t think that’s right.
(M) Well we do it together.
(J) I do, I think it’s a tandem thing.
(J) You can’t have one without the other.
(M) Oh, ok.
(J) You can’t reveal the sin, the sickness, the disease, the wrong thoughts. You can’t reveal those and not have the solution.
(J) If you just reveal the sin that leaves you helpless and hopeless. If you just give the remedy without revealing the sin, then you can go into some ‘la-la’ land where you’re really not being helped because you’re really not adhering those solutions to the actual problem. So I think it’s a tandem thing.
(J) I think we work in tandem.
(M) Well somebody wrote us that, from Puerto Rico, last podcast, and saw the tandem.
(J) Well Joan even, went even further with that, which I really appreciate. She just said (about John) I’m going through a tunnel.
(J) And it’s not… And she just said, don’t let it be a ‘role’. It’s not your ‘role’ to be the proto-type, or whatever. You are going through a process that you’re coming out of, and that’s not who you are, it’s just where you’re at.
(J) And I really appreciate that; that’s good.
(M) That’s great.
(J) Yeah. So umhum. Ok, as the proto-type, I came to you and I had fully embraced the ‘great lie’. I had fully embraced it. I was living ‘the great lie’. I was infected with the great lie. And our message “The Great Lie” was one of the first ones I heard. I don’t know if it was the first one. It was one of the first ones I heard. It was revolutionary to my whole walk, because I realized all my bumping my head against circumstances and situations and frustrations, were just trying to gain my attention to say ‘you’re thinking wrong’. So I understand completely that ‘the lie’ is horrible. But what we’re looking at today is that ‘the lie’, wraps itself, it’s like a cancer that wraps itself around every vital organ of your being, ok. And God has to come and surgically remove it. And because it’s so in us, it’s so a part of us, it’s so intricate in our being and our structure and our thinking and our foundation, we have to have it systematically removed. I believe that there is a one-time choice; I will not believe that You are a liar. I will not fall in line with that. I choose to leave that thought. But then it’s the walking out of that whole thing. It’s the walking out from that. And Martha, I have been doing that for what, twelve or thirteen years. Well actually it’s more than that, it’s almost fifteen years. Actually it’s even more than that.
(M) Because you listened for two years.
(J) I listened for two and a half years before I ever came.
(J) And ah, you know, the gospel that you were preaching was counter to the gospel that I was being taught. Your gospel went and said, God is God, God is sovereign, God is good. The gospel I was listening to in church was man is good.
(M) Do it!
(J) Do it! Yeah, and ah, help God out. And ah so… It was leaving me completely vanquished. So, ok, so life’s circumstances have gone around and around and around, and proved to me that God is not good, because I believed it.
(M) You believed the evidence in life.
(J) Oh Martha, it is so awesome, and it’s so essential. If you allow your life circumstances to define your relationship and your God, you are dead. You are totally dead.
(M) So that’s it. You believe God by what you see, feel, and experience, rather than by the Word of God and His presence with you.
(J) Ok, now that’s rebellion.
(M) Yeah but it’s also… It also speaks of a lot of suffering; early-early suffering that establishes this, this pattern of thinking. Do you think that that has something to do with childhood?
(J) Oh absolutely. It, it is reinforced all your life. It is reinforced from you know, whatever, wherever you, ‘the lie’ is already established in you, ok. I was born into humanity, fallen humanity. I came with ‘the lie’.
(J) I was birthed out of here. I was formed in ‘the lie’.
(J) Ok. It’s, it’s been a process of God extracting me from ‘the lie’ and bringing me into reality and truth. Ok. I mean Martha, I have glimpses, I have little glimpses of, of God, that are outstanding.
(J) You remember that one dream?
(M) Yes, I do.
(J) You remember that one dream I had, where I saw, well I saw Jesus. And I was away from Him. I didn’t, I wasn’t, I was looking across a room, there was a bunch of people at His feet. I was looking at Him. And I said, oh my-gosh, I could love that Man so much. And this was way early, early, but I said, I could love that Man. I fell in love with Him. I looked at Him, I said oh. And you remember what I said to Him.
(M) Umhum, I do.
(J) I said ah, were You perfect? I don’t know if this’ll chafe ‘em.
(M) It’s ok; I can back it up with scripture.
(J) Ok. I asked Him, I said, were You perfect? Ok, and that revealed everything about my existence.
(M) Ahuh, ahuh.
(J) And He said no, I was just obedient.
(M) Well He said, ‘why call ye Me good? No one’s good but the Father’. And He was living in humanity fully, but deriving good from the Father.
(J) Umhum, umhum.
(M) He set aside His ‘godness’ shall we say, to come to experience ‘us’, and take us through this terrible disease.
(J) Well, and I don’t believe that He’s not perfect. I do believe that He’s perfect.
(J) He was a perfect, spotless Lamb.
(J) Ok, I believe that. But my statement of ‘perfect’ was not…
(M) Yours was performance.
(M) Your question was, doYou perform perfectly?
(J) Which He did.
(M) Is that right?
(J) Yeah, and He did. He performed perfectly, under the will of the Father. But I was saying, did You… It was more a statement of me.
(J) Yeah, it was the demand that you felt you’ve had to live under was perfection, and what you put yourself under was perfection.
(M) So He was answering you with intense intimate knowledge of what you meant.
(J) Right. Hallelujah.
(M) Yeah. It was precious.
(J) He was setting me free, so He was saying no I’m not looking for your performance and perfection in your performance. What I’m looking for is your obedience. Every single, every single touch with Him has been a beacon and as a sentinel standing on the path saying there is Light here. Keep going. And all my dealings with Him, all my conversations with Him, that it was really Him and not ‘the great lie’, ah were beacons and sentinels saying continue, continue. And ah, so, it started… You know my history. It started way early, four years old or earlier, whatever. And ah, those little beacons were saying I am God, I am sovereign. You know, and calling me higher. But I was so entrenched. And I came out of generational issue of ‘the great lie’.
(J) Ah, I don’t want to expose but ah…
(M) Yeah. Well, God came to you as, in early childhood. And I remember you telling me you and your parents went to the Lutheran church and you simply said at about the age of six, “God isn’t here, we won’t go back.” And you didn’t. (Laughter) But you had a strange… God was after you from childhood. I had no such early, early, experiences with God. I just knew Him. I mean I knew that He exists. But see it’s ‘a madness’, because you know God is good, but you believe that He is bad.
(J) Right, right.
(M) And I can appreciate the madness of that, and I can appreciate the satanic stronghold, it is probably a satanic stronghold of believing that He is not good, and seeing the proof, and being blind to His goodness.
(M) But I still don’t understand.
(J) No, and granted you shouldn’t. I mean, at a certain point God says enough, enough.
(J) I have shown you, I have proved to you, I am good. I have told you in My Word. I have backed it up with evidence.
(J) Visible evidence.
(M and J) Believe. (Spoken in unison)