with Martha Kilpatrick and hosted by John Enslow
(M) Do you see the term, the government of God, as interchangeable with the Kingdom?
(J) I believe that that’s what it is. The Kingdom of God is the government of God. He does have a Kingdom. See, if you look at the world scene and you see all the disarray and apparent chaos and the fighting and the squabbling about this and that and the other thing, if you focus on that it shakes your faith, because you say, “Oh, my gosh, where’s the government of God?” But I don’t believe that the govenment of God is affected by any of that, because He’s not occupying a land. He’s not occupying America. He’s occupying the people in America, one by one. It’s this one out of this family and this one out of this family. And He’s establishing His government to rule and reign. It’s all under the scenes. And it is His Kingdom. I’ll just read the Isaiah 9 account in verse 6 and following of Jesus’ government and the Kingdom coming forth, “For to us a child is born, to us a Son is given, and the government shall be upon His shoulders and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace, of the increase of His government and of peace there will be no end on the throne of David and over His Kingdom to establish it and uphold it with justice and with righteousness from this time forth and forever more. The zeal of the Lord of Hosts will do this.” Will! John Enslow is not going to affect that. It will happen.
(M) But I always have to say, John Enslow will be the instrument or the place where God’s government touches the earth from the heavens. But there’s going to be those who want to serve God without being under the government of God, and even think they will not affect God. He will by-pass them and say, “Ok, you won’t get on the train of My move of the increase of My government, but I’m still going. You just won’t be involved in it.”
(J) Or, you may be used as another force.
(M) Like Joseph’s brothers were sovereignly used to increase the government. That’s phenominal, that He’s not only not thwarted by the one who’s in His Lordship, He’s not thwarted by the ones who aren’t. He uses their very sin as we’ve seen so clearly in many areas that He uses everthing to increase His government.
(J) Period. Whether you’re motive is incorrect or correct, you will … He’s bigger than that. I know that during our personal times and I think a couple of them were placed on tape, that the times we met as a Body and we were talking about the government of God, I didn’t have anything to say because I was sitting there kind of just staring at what He was saying to me. But you’re exactly right, the govenment is not affected.
(M) And others that didn’t know what you were thinking about, this tour to Israel turned into Body life. It was an expression of our daily life together, not just heaven touching down and giving Body life for one event or two events. This was our church group and everybody was coming forth with this subject in our meetings, in our gatherings where Christ was in the center. Government was His topic for this tour.
(J) Absolutely. It was the thread that went through every single message was government.
(M) It was really amazing that when the Holy Spirit is on a subject and if people are in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit brings the same subject to everyone. So that together we form a revelation of an increase of the government. I think if we wanted to see Him there… One person said, “I’ve got to see Him.” And I think the vision of Him was that of His government. He is the government. Christ is the head of the church. He is the reason, the beginning, the end. He is the government. The government is a person and His personal dealings with you, wrestling with you as He did with Jacob and walking
with you. It’s the increase of His Lordship. It’s ever going on. Don’t you think?
(M) How did you see His govenment increase in us through this experience of Israel?
(J) I saw that He put His foot down. I saw Him put His foot down. He put His foot down in us. I saw Him lay His foot down in the land. I see that He brought His message. He was established, and His govenment was established. And I’m not saying this in grandiosity. I’m saying this is something that He doesn’t do with a lot of groups, but I am seeing it in ours, and I was on our trip. So that’s what I’m speaking of. I’m saying He did have… He was there. Who is He today? Who is He in this earth today? What is His expression in this earth, but the Spirit of the living God, resident within His chosen vessels. He was there. We look for an outward manifestation of Him. What about an inward manifestation? What about a corporate Body of Himself? I see that there’s no more beautiful thing than to have fifteen people all indwelt by Him with a single voice. Remember, you know, in the Moses movie when they all looked to the mountain and the trumpet blast is coming forth from the mountain in Sinai, and they all started standing up with one voice saying what the Lord was saying. That’s what happened. That’s what happened among us. It wasn’t like we had a script. And I had government before it started. I’m having government at the end of it and that was theme that went through the entire thing. None of us were preempted on this. We didn’t say this tour is our government. We just sat at his feet in Israel. We didn’t say it was on government.
(M) We never planned it.
(J) We never planned it.
(M) We never had a subject we were going toward. It spontaneously bubbled up like your spring.
(J) Well, it’s an amazing thing that sometimes we’ll go and have messages already developed, already ready to go and we know where we’re going to basically speak them. Sometimes we have a message and we don’t know where it’s going to be spoken, but we do have a message. Sometimes we just have something written. This time I had nothing when I came to Atlanta to go to get on that plane. Did you?
(M) And I had nothing over and over and over again. And that itself was manifesting His government. If He didn’t speak to me, I didn’t speak to the people. Same with you. You usually speak in Israel, but He didn’t open your mouth, so you didn’t speak and that was the test of government for me. Finally He said I’m going to let you speak sentences, not messages. That was His government.
(J) That was His choice. It was His trip.
(M) And so His government increased in the leadership and in the people. And because the group wanted only what He said they were perfectly satisfyed that most of the time there was nothing said. The richest times were where two or more are gathered together, there I am in the midst. And we would see the same thing together.
(J) And the message was delivered and developed.
(M) Yeah, it was delivered in the meeting room.
(J) And then that’s when God showed me how that government was being brought forth. You remember He said, “I want a body speaking. I want a body raising up.” And some of the messages from Shulamite Ministries may be changing. It might be a corporate thing, because this is what I saw and this is kind of where I’m seeing He’s going. What He said is, “I need many blades of grass or many holes in the flute to play a melody and play a song.” Someone has that on one of their pictures they bought about the blades of grass. Oh, my gosh,it was saying… It was actually a rabbi that said it. It talked about the blades of grass and how with the wind and the blades of grass that the song comes forth. And I’m seeing that each of us had a piece of it. Each of us had a part of the message and together it brought one corporate unified message.
(M) It’s actually, John, going to enrich… Because many times when I speak it’s from others who give, contribute to the message I’m getting. They contribute, but they don’t want to be known. And they enrich me in the direction I’m going now. And I have prayed for this. I cannot tell you how long that the saints would enter into the verbal expression of Christ in our midst. And I think it happened. The increase of His government came in that manner too, to say you must give testimonty to the world. You are called to the world too. It’s why in the beginning I determined that it would be called Shulamite Ministries. Not that there would be many things we would do, but that every person would have a ministry. Well, they do now. It’s taken some years, but each person does have a ministry to the Lord in our midst. And now it’s going to be manifested and they’re going to have the joy of blessing the nations. Maybe it’s one sentence. Many times those people who walk with me will say one sentence that is extremely profound. I think it’s an enrichment of me and it is a support of the message He’s planted in me. It’s the second witness so to speak that makes the message undeniable. We had one session that we didn’t tape on that, but it was so rich that we taped the rest of them. We taped every one as the spontaneous pulling forth of scripture and insight. His government increased in this body. I’ve gone back here to a scripture that one of the intercessors gave me and it has so grounded me in the government of God. It’s 2nd Corinthians 3:8. This is our ministry, not just Martha’s, not just Paul’s who wrote this. And he’s contrasting the dispensation of the law as having glory. Then he says in 2nd Corinthians 3:8 in the Amplified, “Why should not the dispensation of the Spirit, this spiritual ministry, whose task it is to call men to obtain and be governed by the Holy Spirit be attended with much greater and more spendid glory?” And occasionally I’ve mentioned that scripture. But it’s what you are seeing, this dispensation of the Spirit. The ministry of the Spirit is to cause men to obtain the Holy Spirit, to receive the Holy Spirit, but then to be governed by the Holy Spirit and that is the government of God. That’s what has happened in our midst over time. We have evolved to functioning under the government of God in corporate revelation. It’s the most amazing thing. It has been happening for a long time. Jacquelyn would be in Poland and she would write us the scripture that we were on here. This body life is in our midst, the manifestation of His government with us. He is ruling. He is right in the center as Lord and master and government. It’s just perfectly wonderful. Can I add one thing? And you can put it at the end. What we don’t understand also is this about this government. This goverment is a test. It causes chaos wherever we go, because the government is moving through the earth and there is a place in our feet where the government of God touches down and opposes the false governments of the god of this world. And there is tremendous opposition, and it’s all about government. 1st Corinthians 6:2, “Do you not know that the saints, the believers will one day judge and govern the world? And the world itself is to be judged and ruled by you. Are you unworthy and incompetent to try such petty matters of the smallest courts of justice.” What it means is we are learning in this life how to be governed by Him that we will be fit to govern for Him. And that is through eternity. That is phenominal. That’s the purpose of the governement. Our wrestling with the will of God in His government is the military sort of training. I just want to end by the fact that… At some other point we’re going to continue the subject on a different topic, same subject. The intention of God is that He would rule us so that He can pour out His favor that He so wants to give. But you can’t have that favor without the government. You can have delusion, pretense, all kinds of flesh and soul works, but you cannot have the true favor of God apart from His government. And many believers think you can. I can claim the favor of God, but I don’t have to follow the will of God. And it does not work. And it will collapse.
(J) Well, may we have the belief in His sovereignty and in His ruling. May we have the understanding of His magnitude that supercedes our failings and our weaknesses, and may we have His life….
(M) His life alone is subject to God. May we have the increase of Chist and the decrease of us.
(J) I don’t want to withstand in unbelief, believing that my failingS and that my weaknesses can thwart the eternal God. What a limiting factor that is to me and my destiny.
(M) You know, John, even about our Israel trips, we have had a long term experience of great difficulty, but because we dealt with it under the government of God it turned into enormous riches. So there’s no situation possible, no suffering, no opposition, no persecution that if we take it under the government of God that doesn’t issue in our blessing and His increase. I hope that made sense. I think this suffering and persecution that we sometimes experience as we live under His Lordship exposes what is not under His Lordship. And the very persecution turns to put it under His Lordship, to increase His Lordship. And I think this was on tape. I remember being so excited about it at Caesarea Phillippi up in northen Israel near Dan. As we’d been talking about the government of God and you will hear it on that tape, one morning in my time with Him I suddenly saw that the government is of the Holy Spirit, moment by moment. Romans 8:4. Romans 8 is the great solution to all of our difficulties of… “in my heart I love the will of God, in my life you see another law at work.” Romans 8 is the solution which is the Spirit. “The righteous and just requirement of the law might be fully met in us to live and move, not in the ways of the flesh, but in the ways of the Spirit.” Our lives governed, not by the standards according to the dictates of the flesh, but controlled by the Holy Spirit. The government of God as John has seen it, rules and reigns, regardless, can be touched or thwarted by nothing. But the government of God to us as one step at the time is through the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the government of God, the absolute presence and messanger and power of the will of God in our lives. The personal government of God is the nudgings of the Holy Spirit. And we’re only governed, we’re only under the government of God if we walk in the Spirit. That’s why it says, “Those who are led of the Spirit are the sons of God.” This is a repeat, but it merits repeating. The government of the Spirit is what God wants us to come under, practically, individually. You said the government one by one, John. And that government one by one is interpreted is called for and initiated by the Holy Spirit. The reason this body started to rise up with this one subject is because each one was under the government of the Holy Spirit. So it came together as one person, Jesus, being able to convey His message to a group as a corporate single subject, because each one was being dealt with, influenced by, nudged by, wooed by the great romance of the Holy Spirit to bring us under Christ.