with Martha Kilpatrick and hosted by John Enslow
Special Guest Rosemary Lokers and Jean Mixon
(M) Naomi took me aside and wanted to tell me two stories, and I want to tell one of them, John. We’ve known Naomi since the first time we came, and this is our thirteenth time. I don’t remember whether it was the tenth time, but one day the Lord showed me powerfully and it just broke me, that the poor are rich in faith. I just saw that we Americans think of poverty as being without, having a dirt floor and being without material goods and money. And I saw that when you are poor you are rich in faith, and that’s how He said it. And I just wept over it, because I realized that some of these people have more faith than people I know at home.
(M) Well here’s Naomi, and you’ll see a picture of her in this podcast. She’s a tiny little woman with a brown face, but just as John says, just beautiful. And she told a story of her daughter’s husband who was very cruel and he came into their kitchen one night and closed the door with Uleo her husband, and the little daughter, and Naomi. And he said this is the end of you devils.
(J) That’s what he said?
(M) And he took the daughter and threw her to the ground, and he took Uleo’s arm and threw him to the ground. And he had picked up a piece of firewood to beat them to death. And he took Naomi’s arm, and she said, “God, I know You are here”. She said, I was not afraid. She repeated it. I was not the least bit afraid. And she started pleading the blood of Jesus, and suddenly he calmed down. And that happened the second time.
(J) I can look at her face and know that that story is utterly true.
(M) Absolutely true. And she told it quite matter-of-factly. I would have said, oh, wow! Isn’t this amazing! But it was her life, it’s their life here; there’s such violence and frustration and anger and meanness. But the poor, this woman has a dirt floor, she is one of the poorest in the area. But she has learned to hope in God, in a real life situation.
(Jean) And that’s what John was really saying to me, because I want to rush in and fix it for Naomi, I wanted to do it quickly, let me do this, and John said this is God’s choice for her. And it’s looking at entirely the wrong way.
(J) And I don’t say that coldly. It’s just that the Lord knows exactly where all this has to go. That’s why we utterly have to be completely led of the Spirit in everything we give, and where we give, because the need is great.
(M) It’s too great.
(R) Because you never know what God is doing.
(Jean) That is what John was trying to say to me.
(R) If we don’t do according to the will of God then we can ruin what God’s doing. And I told Martha last night, you know the Bible says, “Blessed are the poor in spirit”, and God has to do such a work of destroying to make you so desperately needy of Him for every single thing in your life. But poor people already know how to live poor. They have to beg God for their food, for when their kids get sick and they have no money to take them to the doctor, so what can they do? They get on their knees and they beg God to heal their child. They need money to get to the bus and they don’t have money to get on the bus, so what do they do? They get on their knees and they beg God for the money for their bus fare. So they are already used to, in a physical way, begging and living by asking God to meet every single need that we never even think as Americans of having to ask God for. We trust in our money. So they already know how to live poor. So if that can be transferred into the spiritual realm of living that way for everything, they actually have that advantage over us, because God doesn’t have to do the work to bring them to the poverty, they already know how to live poor.
(M) That’s why they’re rich in faith.
(Jean) I was thinking how God has given us such a lesson in this. In our country by what we see on the news every night that drives us insane that is the result of great wealth, and total irresponsibility; and no need for God, because they’ve got everything else. And God has given us little subtle ways, like cleaning somebody’s second house and realizing, I’m certainly glad I don’t have two houses to take care of. One is plenty, thank you very much. What is in these little lessons, what He’s taught us is that what you own, owns you. It’s got to be taken care of, it’s got to be looked after, it’s got to be protected, and it’s got to be insured. So you know, John is right, this is God’s choice for them, and it is a good choice. And where they are is good; to be on your face everyday for your daily bread is a good thing.
(M) One day I want Rosemary and Bob to share their initial experiences in Honduras with giving. We won’t do it on this podcast, but later. It is something you have to learn, coming down here.
(J) It is, because it’s overwhelming.
(M) And you can’t bear it.
(J) No, because if you have the supply, why don’t you give it? And you want to.
(M) You want to go home and sell your house and give it all away.
(J) Right, because you’re saying, oh my gosh, I could fix this, I could fix this. It’s the American thing to do.
(M) You do, you think you know.
(R) You think having things solves everything.
(M) I’ve looked at some missions that all they do is build and supply material things. And though we are doing that, and I love it and it’s wonderful, I don’t want us to be that kind of mission board.
(J) It’s the only thing you want to do.
(M) Yeah, that’s why you began showing the balance of we want to feed them spiritually, we want to feed them food, we want to cover them.
(J) Well the point of this trip was that He wanted to say I hear your cry.
(M) Yes, yes.
(J) If you think about it in Exodus, when the children of Israel cried, what was it that He first said? He said I hear your cry and your cry matters. And I’m going to take care of it. But to know that a Daddy, that was His first initial extending of His hand of Fatherly love. I hear, I do hear, it matters to Me. And so He was saying to these woman you may live with this man for another twenty years, you know, whatever, this is not about getting you out of that. But I want you to know I hear your cry. And somehow that’s so healing to the heart, to know …a Father cares.
(M) And you know John I want to say this. I imagine before this conference is over, it will have cost about eighteen hundred dollars. And we let it be known to Fatima, the pastor’s wife, and Rosemary, that there’s a friend of the ministry that has given that sum, This is not an accumulation, this is one couple that has given this sum. And several people…Fatima said, do tell this man and his wife how much we appreciate this. And Rosemary and Fatima have put little candy jars with American candies, and some of them at home accumulated little ‘lady’ things, lotions and such; and we got so tickled because she put in little bath oil bubble’s, and Rosemary handed them back to me laughing and saying, none of these people have a bathtub.
R) And Fatima said, They’ll think they’re candy and pop them in their mouths. (Laughter)
(M) So these little treats seemed like so little to do, but they are signals, and comforts, and God gives you times of comfort in your life.
(R) Then they all talked about the perfume; they all came smelling great, beautiful.
(M) Did they really? Well see, that matters to them, its their heavenly Fathers thing, I know you’re a woman, I know what you like, and I know you can’t afford it, lotion and perfume, and a little lip gloss, and though you don’t have a bathtub, it was a big gift from their perspective but it was a small gift from ours.
(J) And the morning after we’d given those little things, I came in and Naomi grabbed my hand, and I said, oh my goodness how soft your hands are. And she just got this huge smile; and on the pictures you won’t see her smiling really big because she just doesn’t, but she got this huge big smile on her face, and she’s going oh yes, and rubbing her face. (M) Those are little signs that we think are little, but are huge to them. It’s a spiritual ministry of speaking for the Father. So I wanted to send a message to our giver that this conference was totally from that one couple, and that we were led to give to the poor this way. And I want to say too that John did some speaking there. And his presence was really more evident in this conference than he usually allows himself to be. And they just loved it that a man was there; that meant a lot to them too.
(R) And Juan opened the conference…
(M) Juan opened the conference and stayed with us in the beginning. And the presence of John there, and his acceptance and care about them, I know that was a big gift too. It was not just a woman speaking to a woman. It was a man being there to validate their worth.
(Jean) Yes, John’s presence validated them.
(M) Yes it did, and it was a ministry, just his presence, and then he had several things to tell them that were very key as well.
(J) Well I took a totally different stance and I’ve never done that before.
(M) You did. I’ve begged you to.
(J) You have, and I’ve just never done it. But the Lord just said get up and say this and I did, and I don’t take this stance normally.
(M) Right. I just appreciate the interest that people express in our work in Honduras, because I want it to be fully open and known, you know, and I want them to know the life here. I’ve asked Rosemary to share that and she’s beginning, and the website is just going to be wonderfully developed, so do keep an eye on the Loker’s website.
(J) And we want to additionally invite you to go to Bob and Rosemary’s website. You can go to the ‘who are we’ section of our podcast, go down along the right-hand side and you’ll see the Wilson’s and the Loker’s. I can wait; when are you going to put up the…? So keep an eye on that because we saw what she’s going to do, her initial run-through of trying to work with the software and with the computer to try to see how to do the video and how to bring it through the website. It’s going to be really neat to be able to see, you know, going shopping with Rosemary; that’s just going to be fun.
(R) And then I’ll have video of the conference and maybe I can get it up before this podcast is on. Then people can actually see live video of what was going on in the women there.
(J) That is so cool.
(R) I took it, took the video. So I could do the same thing.
(J) Please go visit their website and see that, and just watch..
(M) Well at different times Rosemary took both John and me, we didn’t go together, but she took us to market, and it’s quite a cultural shock. But the beautiful array of goods is just astounding, and it’s her life and how she lives, and how she provides as a woman, and it was delightful. So she’ll be filming that for you to see.