With Martha Kilpatrick and hosted by John Enslow

This is the continuation of a series of Podcasts started in Episode #629.
It’s frightening to be vulnerable, but we are called to be vulnerable sheep. The temptation is to grasp for power but the safety is in following Jesus.

John:
You know, you… There was one time in the Bible Study early, early, early, early, that was a lady who gave a message. And do you remember the lady that gave the message and when she delivered the message everybody in the room went, “Oooo! Ahhh! Whoa!” But then shortly after she delivered the message people said, “What? What was it about again?”

Martha:
Oh, yeah.

John:
Do you remember that?

Martha:
I do, it was about fear, right?

John:
It was about fear. Yeah, yeah, yeah!

Martha:
And she was one who lived in her mind.

John:
And she delivered a very, very eloquent, intellectual, amazing message but it had no fruit at the end of it.

Martha:
No practicality.

John:
And no life.

Martha:
And no life.

John:
The reason it didn’t is because it, it emanated from… And there, there you go, back to what I wrote these posts on. Is it Christ or not? Was it life or death? Was it Christ or not? And when, when I heard that message I said, “That was really a great message.” But literally I could not remember a single thing that was said.

Martha:
All the glory was for her as the grand speaker but there was no substance and no life.

John:
Wow.

Martha:
It was a big lesson for us.

John:
Wow, wow, wow!

Martha:
And we also had to learn really painfully and long that people who began to speak out of the flesh and out of the mind, we had to learn that it was our responsibility to say, “Stop! This is not Jesus.”

John:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But there again, is it Christ or not? Not if it’s right or wrong.

Martha:
Or good or bad.

John:
Or good or bad! Is this Christ? And I think now, now that we’ve matured as a body, I think now that we would stop and say, “Wait, wait!” But there was almost, there was, with that particular time, there was almost like a spell kind of wrapped around it because it mesmerized.

Martha:
Um hmm. It was…

John:
I can’t say that I would say, “Wait a minute, stop” because I, you know, I know what Christ smells like. I know, I know what He sounds like. And I didn’t necessarily go, “Oh, wait a minute, this is absolutely not God.” It was seductive!

Martha:
It was seductive and it was brilliant.

John:
Not sexually seductive. It was brilliantly seductive. It seduced the mind. And so anyway… Whether it was not good or evil or right or wrong, it’s whether it’s Christ or not. And if, you know, that’s, that’s the, that’s the power of Paul’s message is that it was, it wasn’t, you know… Is Christ being preached? That’s all he cared about. It wasn’t whether it was right or wrong. Is Christ being preached? And in that she wasn’t delivering Christ. She was delivering herself. And then that other pastor that you were talking about. And so that kind of, that kind of takes the air out of, of whether I say it correctly, whether I say it energetically, whether I say it with passion, whether I say it with eloquent words. That just kind of deflates that raft altogether and says, “Who’s the source of it? Was it a capital ‘S’ source?”

Martha:
And we are supposed to know…

John:
Yeah.

Martha:
…the voice. “Another voice the sheep will not hear. The sheep know My voice.” If you don’t know His voice…

John:
It’s because you’re not a sheep.

Martha:
You’re not a sheep and sometimes believers who are born again and are sheep will not be one. You’re only a disciple…

John:
Well it’s frightening!

Martha:
Um hmm, yeah.

John:
That’s an utterly frightening position to be in as a sheep because you are absolutely, utterly vulnerable.

Martha:
And dependent.

John:
And dependent.

Martha:
Absolutely dependent!

John:
You’re, you’re vulnerable to the entire world. You’re vulnerable to everything. But then you have a Shepherd who’s able to protect you. You have a Shepherd who is able to keep you and, and watch you and watch for you. But…

Martha:
And watch over you.

John:
And watch over us.

Martha:
And watch over everything that’s going on. That’s, that’s what He does.

John:
That’s the ultimate safety.

Martha:
Yes, it is the ultimate safety. And so fear is really a wretched denial of the Shepherd. I picked up an old Bible the other day and I had written in it: “A disciple is a sheep that follows or he is not a disciple.” A disciple is a sheep because it’s all about following after Jesus. Following where, following wherever He goes and not initiating anything. We’re not supposed to initiate anything. And I heard someone say recently the great, great need of the church in this hour is the gift of discernment. And that gift comes only by what you went through that you described, a training in discernment, and what I went through with this pastor because I thought he was a great speaker. He had wonderful things to say. I just didn’t know they weren’t his.

John:
Well, you know, Christ says to be a sheep, yes. He also ­– and be shepherded, which is vulnerable – but He also says be a child which is an utter vulnerability as well. You are completely vulnerable. As a, as a weaned child, you are utterly vulnerable to the parent. That the parent take care of you. That the parent watch you. That the parent shelter you, the parent feed you. You’re, you are vulnerable and, and I think that it’s that naked vulnerability that we do not like. It’s frightening.

Martha:
We want to be independent.

John:
Right!

Martha:
I read something very powerful. I believe it was Austin-Sparks. And it’s so true. He said what human beings want is power. And that’s what gets us into trouble. And that, that person who spoke so brilliantly in, in mesmerizing manner, that was power…

John:
Power!

Martha:
…the power of the enemy present. Wasn’t it? We didn’t know that it was the power at that time. But we just knew that we suddenly were confused. Nothing was left but her.

John:
Right, right. Yeah, well, anytime we talk about power, I always think of Galadriel from Lord of the Rings when she has her encounter with the ring and she’s given the ability to take the ring and she becomes just like, crazy, like, you know….

Martha:
With ambition.

John:
With ambition. You know, “I could be the Master of the universe!” and then pow! You know, and, and that ring of power made her crazy. It was enticing and it made her crazy and she literally had to get away from it and saw that it was too powerful. And it is too powerful.

Martha:
Did she throw the ring off?

John:
I don’t remember how it happened. I don’t even know if she put it on. She just had it. But I don’t remember. I’d have to watch it again, and somebody who, who really…

Martha:
That’s a very insightful issue, that it’s about power.

John:
It was about power.

Martha:
And what it really means is we all want to be God. We don’t want to have to have a God. We, we want power.

John:
And it’s enticing and it’s seductive and it makes us nuts! Crazy.

Martha:
I want to read something, also, in an older Bible. This is Oswald Chambers. “The greatest blessing spiritually…(I wonder what we would say that is? All kinds of lists of things we could say is the greatest spiritual blessing. Ok, you ready?)…the greatest spiritual blessing is the knowledge that we are destitute (laughs). Until we have gotten there, our Lord is powerless in our life.”

John:
Whoa.

Martha:
Until we are destitute! See, we don’t follow when we, when we want our way.

John:
Oh, that, that takes it to another realm, doesn’t it?

Martha:
And it’s, I know this so well because He has reduced me over and over and over. He has taken this lamb and set her down and made me know… He hasn’t made me destitute. He’s made me know that I am.

John:
Yeah, absolutely.

Martha:
And so that is the greatest blessing spiritually: the knowledge that we are destitute, like children.

John:
That we are.

Martha:
We are. That is our state. And it’s written on the page of Matthew 5, the Beatitudes. “Blessed are the poor in spirit for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.” And until we get there, our Lord is powerless in our lives.

John:
That should be a, a big enticement to, to embrace your…

Martha:
Destitution! I was grieving about someone recently who’s missing the mark so badly and I said, “Lord, what is it?” And He said, “She will not be nothing.” And I said, “Oh, let me be nothing.” I am nothing.

John:
I am nothing!

Martha:
I am ever discovering I am nothing. He is everything! And He’s got to be everything. We don’t need to be anything. We are a vessel. We’re a clay, common vessel!

John:
Right.

Martha:
And we don’t— We need to be in the adventure of watching Him live a life that we’re incapable of living in our own being.

John:
It’s not a, it’s not a, a slight on us. It’s…

Martha:
No, it’s just the reality!

John:
It’s the reality and it’s the blessing of everything.

Martha:
It’s dependence. We are independent and that’s the sin of the garden. But, oh, how lovely to be a stupid sheep (laughs) and know that He doesn’t expect us to be anything else.

John:
Or if you don’t like to be a sheep, be a child. Either one, either one are completely dependent.

Martha:
Yes!

John:
Utterly dependent.

Martha:
Um hmm.

John:
Devastatingly dependent!

(They laugh.)

Related Episodes

| By Email